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Dear Goanetters,
Our politicians are working for our human integral development. We know
their temptation for corruption and criminalization of politics. Yet we
respect them and eagerly wait for the results of their endeavours. All
religions should work for the human dignity, human rights, human integral
development. I am giving a little text of the Catholic Church (Pontifical
Council for Interrreligious Dialogue) on a call to all religions and men of
goodwill, in particular to collaboration between the Church and the Hindu
community for human integral development (given on the occasion of their
festival Deepavalli).
(Cf.http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20091017_diwali_en.html)

"Christians and Hindus: Committed to Integral Human Development

Dear Hindu Friends,

(1. It is my joy to greet you all, once again, in the name of the Pontifical
Council for Interreligious Dialogue: a Happy Deepavali! Religious Festivals
enable us to revitalize our relationship with God and one another. May this
Festival of Lights, while elevating our minds and hearts towards God, the
Supreme Light, strengthen fellowship among us and bless us all with
happiness and peace.

2. Honouring the tradition of this Pontifical Council to share a thought on
matters of common concern, I would like to propose this year that we reflect
on the need to work together for integral human development).

**3. Integral human development implies the advance towards the true good of
every individual, community and society, in every single dimension of human
life: social, economic, political, intellectual, spiritual and religious.
Pope Paul VI described it as "development of the whole man and of all men"
(Populorum Progressio, 1967, no. 42) "from less human conditions to those
which are more human" (Ibid., no.20). And Pope Benedict XVI wrote recently
that "integral human development presupposes the responsible freedom of the
individual and of peoples" (Caritas in veritate, no. 17).

4. Such authentic human development can be achieved only by assuming a
shared responsibility for one another and by seriously engaging in
collaborative action. This springs from our very nature as human beings and
our belonging to one human family.

5. In the process of integral development, protection of human life and
respect for the dignity and fundamental rights of the person, are a
responsibility of everyone, both individually and collectively.

6. Respect for others therefore implies the recognition of their freedom:
freedom of conscience, thought and religion. When persons feel respected in
their primary choice as religious beings, only then are they able to
encounter others and cooperate for the progress of humanity. This shapes a
more peaceful social order conducive to development.

7. Integral human development also requires the political will to work
towards ensuring greater protection of human rights and peaceful
co-existence. Development, freedom and peace are inextricably linked
together, and they complete one another. Lasting peace and harmonious
relations emerge in an atmosphere of freedom; so also, integral human
development is accomplished in an environment of peace.

Let us all, as people of good will, join together to dispel every darkness
that hinders a true vision of co-existence, religious harmony and integral
development for each and every person.

(May Deepavali be an occasion to celebrate our friendship and boldly
proclaim the victory of good over evil, light over darkness, and work
together to bring about an era of true freedom 'for all' and integral human
development 'of all'.

My best wishes, once again, for a splendid and joyous Deepavali)."

Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran
President

Archbishop Pier Luigi Celata
Secretary

Regards.

Fr.Ivo

* * *

The book people are already talking about: Goanetter Selma Carvalho's *Into
the Diaspora Wilderness*. Launch on July 25, 2010 at the UK Goan Festival
[http://goafest.itpsworld.net] Goa launch next month. See
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy at Broadway's, Panjim [Ph
9822488564] at Rs 295 in Goa. Overseas, postage extra.

* * *
) I fully agree with the essential force of the Vatican message to the Hindus
on Diwali.

Under the circumstances, I wonder if there is any need for the Vatican to
continue with a programme of conversion that they are undertaking.

Best wishes

U. G. Barad

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
) --- On Fri, 7/23/10, U. G. Barad <> wrote:
>
> Under the circumstances, I wonder if there is any need for
> the Vatican to continue with a programme of conversion that they are
> undertaking.
>

Peaceful persuasion and conversion of minds is a freedom that every human being and every institution enjoys in a secular democracy. It is the basis of all education.

Cheers,

Santosh

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
) >
> I fully agree with the essential force of the Vatican message to the
> Hindus
> on Diwali.
>
> Under the circumstances, I wonder if there is any need for the Vatican to
> continue with a programme of conversion that they are undertaking.
**Dr.U.G.Barad,
It is a pleasure to have a dialogue with you again. For some reasons it was
interrupted, but the Church has to be in dialogue with the world religions
and with the atheists and agnostics.

1.Christian religion is a missionary religion, therefore nobody can stop it.
"Go into the whole world and proclaim the good news to all nations" (cf.Mk
16:15; Mt 28:16-20), commands the Founder of Christian movement. It is the
Call to Universal Mission. It is the duty of every Christian to witness to
the Person of Jesus, to Truth. Conversion is the work of God in human hearts
as well as that of human freedom. Christianity means transformation of
hearts, of the society, it is human integral development. Christianity is
behind the civilization of love, civilization today. While all work for the
welfare of the world, for a better world, it is the right of each and every
human being to choose the religion of preference. It is the duty and right
of each one to witness to the values and to proclaim them to others, it is
the right of each one to opt for what one prefers. Nobody should object.
Everyone should be open to research and reflection.

2.Christianity can become incarnate in any culture. As Paul VI puts it: "In
the mind of the Lord (Jesus of Nazareth), the Church is universal by
vocation and mission, but when she puts down her roots in a variety of
cultural, social and human terrains, she takes on different external
expressions and appearances in each part of the world" (Evangelii Nuntiandi
n.62). The ideal of a genuine synthesis of Christianity and Hindu religion
was most vigorously pursued by Brahmabandhab Upadhyaya (1861-1907), a
disciple of Keshab C.Sen. Upadhyaya joined the Catholic Church and remained
proud of being a Hindu. He and his companions proclaimed: "We are Hindu
Catholics". He also supplied a rational basis for the claim by pointing out
that the Hindu dharma has two branches: -samaj dharma and -sadhana dharma.
The samaj dharma is concerned with social rules like the daily bath,
abstaining from eating beef and drinking liquor. The sadhana dharma is
concerned with attaining salvation. Hindus, he maintained, are bound by the
samaj dharma, but as far as the sadhana dharma is concerned, a Hindu can
follow any religion. He found that the more strictly he practised the
Catholic faith, the better he grew as a Hindu.

3.Not a few Reformers in India adopted some Christian principles. Thus, Ram
Mohan Roy was impressed by Christ's insistence that the love of God must
find expression in service of one's fellowmen; Mahatma Phule declared
Christ's teaching on the equal dignity of all men as the truth on which
society must be built; Pandita Ramabai saw in Christ's attitude towards
women the hope and salvation of Indian womanhood; Mahatma Gandhi pointed to
Jesus as the Prince of Satyagrahis and wrote: "I shall tell the Hindus; your
lives will be incomplete unless you reverently study the teaching of Jesus"
(M.K.Gandhi: The Message of Christ, Bombay, 1963, p.42). Swami Akhilananda
stated: "The teachings of Jesus are applicable in our daily lives; we still
further to say: "When they are not applied, life is not worth living" (Swami
Akhilananda: Hindu View of Christ, New York, 1049, p.139).
It is, therefore, not surprising that some great Hindus saw the best
hope of India's greatness and prosperity in the total acceptance of the
Christian Religion. They were convinced that Jesus helps Hindus to become
better Hindus and shows the way to make India a better place to live in.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
)
As expected of clergy, Fr. Ivo concludes his sermon on above post by
writing: .....It is, therefore, not surprising that some great Hindus saw
the best hope of India's greatness and prosperity in the total acceptance of
the Christian Religion. They were convinced that Jesus helps Hindus to
become better Hindus and shows the way to make India a better place to live
in. (Reference: Message: 11, Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010)

While, Santosh's brain waves compelled him to write: Peaceful persuasion and
conversion of minds is a freedom that every human being and every
institution enjoys in a secular democracy. It is the basis of all education.
(Reference: Message: 7 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010). This response was
predictable from Santosh! So it does not add to my surprise list.

However, I hope both the strong points expressed by illustrious Goans (I
hope so!) on above subject are noted by the group who is put in-charge of
suggesting names of Goans to be honored on Golden Jubilee celebration day of
Goa. Hope this group doesn't forget suggesting above names to DiguKaka! From
my side, I would only say - keep your thinking logic flying high...no matter
who buys your thinking logic!

Best regards,

U. G. Barad

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
) > As expected of clergy, Fr. Ivo concludes his sermon on above post by
> writing: .....It is, therefore, not surprising that some great Hindus saw
> the best hope of India's greatness and prosperity in the total acceptance
> of
> the Christian Religion. They were convinced that Jesus helps Hindus to
> become better Hindus and shows the way to make India a better place to
> live
> in. (Reference: Message: 11, Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010)
***Dear Dr.U.G.Barad,
I did not preach a "sermon", but only quoted (explicitating them) Hindus of
high calibre who spoke of Jesus of Nazareth and his movement of conversion
and transformation of the society. A rose spreads its fragrance all around.
I am glad that you have approached my friend, Dr.Santosh Helekar, who claims
to be an agnostic scientist, with his secular view about human freedom:
Christian conversion should be "peaceful persuasion and conversion of
minds". It is God who works in the human hearts for joy and peace. It is our
birthright in a secular democracy. In short, Christian conversion is a
birthright in the secular democracy. Religion is a part and parcel of our
education, of our human integral development. If all Hindus and men of
goodwill had thought in this way, India would be really shining!... There is
no healthy democracy without conversion of hearts and minds, of life in all
its dimensions...
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
_____________________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Goanet mailing list. Go to http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org to subscribe.
Fr. Ivo, after admiring his friend Dr. Santosh Helekar, wrote: ".. In short,
Christian conversion is a birthright in the secular democracy. ...If all
Hindus and men of goodwill had thought in this way, India would be really
shining!..."

After reading Fr. Ivo's 2nd sermon (which according to Fr. Ivo could be an
explanation) on above subject, I happened to read Times Magazine - USA
edition, dated 7th June 2010. This issue carries photograph of Pope on cover
page and lines reading "Why Being Pope Means Never Having To Say You're
Sorry".

The magazine also gives list of ****-abuse and cover-up scandals that took
place in Ireland between 1936 - 2009; Mexico between 1940 - 2005; Wisconsin
between 1950 - 1998; Boston between 1962 - 2002; Germany between 1970 -
2010; Belgium between 1970 - 2010; Austria between 1975 - 1995; Minnesota
between 2004 - 2006; Brazil between 2007 - 2010.

This issue quotes what Benedict XVI acknowledged on Tuesday, May 11, 2010.
On this day, he offered the most significant comment to date - an
acknowledgement that the catholic church's global clergy ****-abuse and
cover-up scandals is far too grave to be fixed by words alone. He said "The
greatest persecution of the church doesn't come from enemies on the outside
but is born from the sin within the church.. The church needs to profoundly
relearn penitence, accept purification, learn forgiveness but also justice."

In this context, it would be fine to have Fr. Ivo's straight forward
clarifications (with citation of authentic references as he always does in
his point-wise explanations) on: What are the "sins", whom the "penitence"
and "justice" pontiff Benedict XVI refers too? Why are these ****-abuse and
cover-up scandals taking place within church? Are such things taking place
in church only because church's clergy need not have to say "I'm sorry"
after committing scandal? Or creating such scandals are also birthright
offered after becoming Christian clergy? :)-

Best regards,

U. G. Barad

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
)
I think, the author of the article Lisa Miller is not saying that people
have converted to Hinduism in the formal sense. She is saying that the
philosophical aspects of Hinduism is being accepted by more and more people.
In any case, it may be useful to understand some of the things that are
happening at the society level.

Best regards,

U. G. Barad

We Are All Hindus Now
By Lisa Miller
NEWSWEEK
Aug 31, 2009

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155

America is not a Christian nation. We are, it is true, a nation founded by
Christians, and according to a 2008 survey, 76 percent of us continue to
identify as Christian (still, that's the lowest percentage in American
history). Of course, we are not a Hindu-or Muslim, or Jewish, or
Wiccan-nation, either. A million-plus Hindus live in the United States, a
fraction of the billion who live on Earth. But recent poll data show that
conceptually, at least, we are slowly becoming more like Hindus and less
like traditional Christians in the ways we think about God, our selves, each
other, and eternity.

The Rig Veda, the most ancient Hindu scripture, says this: "Truth is One,
but the sages speak of it by many names." A Hindu believes there are many
paths to God. Jesus is one way, the Qur'an is another, yoga practice is a
third. None is better than any other; all are equal. The most traditional,
conservative Christians have not been taught to think like this. They learn
in Sunday school that their religion is true, and others are false. Jesus
said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father
except through me."

Americans are no longer buying it. According to a 2008 Pew Forum survey,
65 percent of us believe that "many religions can lead to eternal
life"-including 37 percent of white evangelicals, the group most likely to
believe that salvation is theirs alone. Also, the number of people who seek
spiritual truth outside church is growing. Thirty percent of Americans call
themselves "spiritual, not religious," according to a
2009 NEWSWEEK Poll, up from 24 percent in 2005. Stephen Prothero, religion
professor at Boston University, has long framed the American propensity for
"the divine-deli-cafeteria religion" as "very much in the spirit of
Hinduism. You're not picking and choosing from different religions, because
they're all the same," he says. "It isn't about orthodoxy. It's about
whatever works. If going to yoga works, great-and if going to Catholic mass
works, great. And if going to Catholic mass plus the yoga plus the Buddhist
retreat works, that's great, too."

Then there's the question of what happens when you die. Christians
traditionally believe that bodies and souls are sacred, that together they
comprise the "self," and that at the end of time they will be reunited in
the Resurrection. You need both, in other words, and you need them forever.
Hindus believe no such thing. At death, the body burns on a pyre, while the
spirit-where identity resides-escapes. In reincarnation, central to
Hinduism, selves come back to earth again and again in different bodies. So
here is another way in which Americans are becoming more Hindu: 24 percent
of Americans say they believe in reincarnation, according to a 2008 Harris
poll. So agnostic are we about the ultimate fates of our bodies that we're
burning them-like Hindus-after death. More than a third of Americans now
choose cremation, according to the Cremation Association of North America,
up from 6 percent in 1975. "I do think the more spiritual role of religion
tends to deemphasize some of the more starkly literal interpretations of the
Resurrection," agrees Diana Eck, professor of comparative religion at
Harvard.

So let us all say "om."

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
) Fr. Ivo in reply to above post, wrote on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 saying: ".. In
short, Christian conversion is a birthright in the secular democracy. ...If
all Hindus and men of goodwill had thought in this way, India would be
really shining!..."

Further to my earlier post of today on above subject I was taken aback when
I opened 9th page of Times of India - Goa addition. This page takes detailed
stock of how "Italian catholic church rocked by gay **** scandal...Priests
filmed having **** at clubs in Rome". The original news appeared in
"Panorama" - a weekly magazine owned by Italian Prime Minister - supposed to
be responsible citizen of Italy.

If one reads the details given in my earlier post today, on above subject,
together with this post and considering the self entertainment facility
built in, one would definitely like to join Fr. Ivo in says "...If all
Hindus and men of goodwill had thought of this way, India would be really
shining!...."

To watch video from Panorama on above issue click:

http://gawker.com/5595501/catholic-priests-filmed-at-gay-nightclub-church-up
set

Best regards,

U. G. Barad

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
)
> Fr. Ivo in reply to above post, wrote on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 saying: ".. In
> short, Christian conversion is a birthright in the secular democracy.
> ...If
> all Hindus and men of goodwill had thought in this way, India would be
> really shining!..."
>
> Further to my earlier post of today on above subject I was taken aback
> when
> I opened 9th page of Times of India - Goa addition. This page takes
> detailed
> stock of how "Italian catholic church rocked by gay **** scandal...Priests
> filmed having **** at clubs in Rome". The original news appeared in
> "Panorama" - a weekly magazine owned by Italian Prime Minister - supposed
> to
> be responsible citizen of Italy.
>
***Dear Dr.U.G.Barad,
You are distorting my clarion-call and the teaching of Christianity by
linking with "gay **** scandal" in Italy or in India.
I have quoted Hindu wi**** and people of integrity and the Christian
principles. If there are **** abuses anywhere in the world, it is up for
everyone to set a standard and think of criteria to judge and transform the
society. All are called, whatever may be the religion or secular societies,
to work for the integral human development. You can bring up the news of
achievements or scandals of any community in the world. You make up your
mind how you can heal the wounds of the modern society and help your
brethren.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo

* * *

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Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is
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Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy.
Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *
)

Dear U. G. Barad,
I would also like to attempt answering the questions submitted to Fr. Ivo,
although I do not have "authentic references." But still. My responses
needless to add, come from a laical perspective--and are mine alone.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

U. G. Barad: What are the "sins", whom the "penitence" and "justice" pontiff
Benedict XVI refers too?
Venantius J Pinto: From what we are aware, those "sins" began with the
****. I presume and understandably too that it would have helped
cement observations if the ""penitence" and "justice" pontiff Benedict XVI"
had explicitly stated the sins. One (as in I, you, others concerned) never
knows since the media does not always spell things out. But on certain
volatile issues we tend to revert to what the media (or what we know of it)
has said. I am not sure who gave him those two appellations--"penitence" and
"justice." Perhaps the media. I doubt whether he took on those names in
addition to Benedict #.

Moving on: There certainly must be other forms of misconduct of the ****
kind that were indulged in within clergical ****uality--essentially expressed
outside of what celibacy entails. So it follows that there would be
pederasty too--no? And something that one may not hear of. Abuse is abuse,
and we have child abuse, child **** abuse, as well as possible engagement
(usually leading to marriage--a not unhealthy beginning), as also ****
abuse of adults, outside of consent and of course needless to add--celibacy
(with its varied meanings). The "movement/motion/notion" that is ****uality
takes many forms and partners (abstention, acceptance by all around you
(yet, still abstention), the willing partner, the unwilling victim, the
oblivious subservient, and the confused thrall) as there are actions and
techniques in any given expression, such as in art, craft, etc. But then we
also have those who say that the celibate state of being is unnatural. I do
not believe so. It is a commitment; and the abuse of children should not be
attached to perceived ills of celibacy. Of course one also does not say, "X
is celibate but engages in zoophilia, or has ants nibble his ****s." (and
so forth)

Perhaps there are people who join the priesthood hoping that an environment
of spirituality would contain their weaknesses. Strengths?! Perhaps others
come with their own strange sense of power and seek privilege, sprouting
dissonant, and perhaps even normal forms of ****uality (as in sharing of ones
being whether or not ****, and consensual among adults) later in life (in
the professed life) on account of say loss, death, being unable to accept a
life of obedience, turning ****us (****rant).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U. G. Barad: Why are these ****-abuse and cover-up scandals taking place
within church?
Venantius J Pinto: Power fears. Power hides. Power hopes things go away.
Power gives one the apparent right to embrace, as also the desire for
submission or participation. Perhaps all this is to simple on my part to
say.. Perhaps the perpetrators are the ones who managed to evade screening
procedures, or perhaps there were fewer strictures in certain groups of any
consequence. But really! At the end of the day, one must also know where
ones children are, and why. The same with others of significance--all
withing reason.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

U. G. Barad: Are such things taking place in church only because church's
clergy need not have to say "I'm sorry" after committing scandal?
Venantius J Pinto: There is tremendous movement as well as a strange
innocence in this question. Perhaps you must be talking of some definitive
"I am sorry," but I believe thew have been many such apologies. But truly do
you think that would help one abused., Unless one is in a position to accept
it, and continue with ones life. Strange stuff is it not, what an apology
ultimately means--leave alone apologetics.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

U. G. Barad: Or creating such scandals are also birthright offered after
becoming Christian clergy?
Venantius J Pinto: Perhaps the word is not birthright, unless ones parents
have offered the child to the priesthood (lets just say to the priestly
class) at birth. Now if you mean: Is it the Right of the Clergy to indulge
in **** Abuse--then suffice it to say that that can never be the
case/should not be a Right, but things happens because they are allowed to
happen for a myriad of reasons. A horribly simple example would be--one is
someone in power, and so wants to use it to sleep with one or more of his
staff.

Besides, there are Christians who know a lot about the concern expressed in
your question above, and have mulled a lot ob those matters, but may not be
given to putting out their thoughts--as to why all that has happened
happened/ is happening/ happen. But one can also come up with ones own
conclusions and share them. I believe thoughts are like "ki" (life force).
We can only tackle so many issues or comprehend so many in one lifetime
before out "ki" runs out.

I apply the above ecumenically--to all Christians. Please note that
ecumenical here pertains strictly to the Christian Body--the whole Christian
church; and does not attempt nor suggest any parallel with any scandal
whatsoever anywhere in time and space. (Basically, no extrapolation).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

U. G. Barad: :)-
Venantius J Pinto: At the end of the day we are all blessed/Blessed or
cursed (we do this to ourselves more often than being cursed by others) as
to the thoughts which intrude upon our minds. This also applies to how
Catholic/Christians choose to see and understand things and issues of
integrity. BUT, no one has to feel compelled to say anything on such layered
matters, and neither must we expect responses--although I am often more than
candid.

Anyway, did my best here, and happy about it. Back to work now. Feel free to
share.

venantius j pinto

Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:25:08 +0530
> From: "U. G. Barad" <>
> To: <>
> Subject: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> (DEL)
> In this context, it would be fine to have Fr. Ivo's straight forward
> clarifications (with citation of authentic references as he always does in
> his point-wise explanations) on: What are the "sins", whom the "penitence"
> and "justice" pontiff Benedict XVI refers too? Why are these ****-abuse and
> cover-up scandals taking place within church? Are such things taking place
> in church only because church's clergy need not have to say "I'm sorry"
> after committing scandal? Or creating such scandals are also birthright
> offered after becoming Christian clergy? :)-
>
> Best regards,
>
> U. G. Barad
>
* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
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)

this person u g barad is clearly a saffron propagandist. his posts are
abominable.

Further to my earlier post of today on above subject I was taken aback
when I opened 9th page of Times of India - Goa addition. This page takes
detailed stock of how "Italian catholic church rocked by gay ****
scandal...Priests filmed having **** at clubs in Rome". The original news
appeared in "Panorama" - a weekly magazine owned by Italian Prime
Minister - supposed to be responsible citizen of Italy.
* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
)
In reply to Rajiv Desai's post dated: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 in which he wrote:
"this person u g barad is clearly a saffron propagandist. his posts are
abominable"

My response: I feel sorry for Rajiv. For without understanding the issue and
facts involved/pointed out for clarification, he preferred to kneejerk. With
this attitude, I am afraid, he will be labeled as NUMB Kongressmen. Are you?

Most importantly, Rajiv must not forget that "Truth is always bitter to
taste"

Best regards,

U. G. Barad

* * *

IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S.
Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai,
Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book
*Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get
your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p
extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
) Fr. Ivo vide Message: 7, dated: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 finally wrote on above
subject: "Dear Dr.U.G.Barad, You are distorting my clarion-call and the
teaching of Christianity by linking with "gay **** scandal" in Italy or in
India. I have quoted Hindu wi**** and people of integrity..."

My response: Fr. Ivo it is up to you to interpret on my straight-forward
questions posed to you. In fact, your earlier message(s) prompted me to ask
you those questions. Most importantly I have not linked Christianity with
gay **** scandals. If at all you have to blame for destroying your
clarion-call and your teachings ..blame those clergy involved in gay ****.
For entire world knows the involvement of clergy in gay **** scandal as well
as the apologetic response of most respected Benedict.

More over, you being a clergy I thought I would get more clarity on the
issues involved. But from your above answer I conclude that our "India will
never shine" in the way you projected it earlier.

Best regards,

U. G. Barad

* * *

UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at
Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is
available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564]
Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy.
Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *
)

In this 'debate', I agree with Dr. UG Barad.

If only Christians would have lived like Christ (and I am not saying
that most don't), i.e. honest, hardworking, courteous, simple etc,
there would have been countless more conversions (true conversions) to
Christianity.

And while it may be true that the vast majority of Catholic clergy is
good etc + that the abuse is prevalent in all sections of many
societies, the Catholic Church lost it's previously held (by many)
moral ground by not acting swiftly to stamp out the curse of the
child-abuse scandal, and worse still ....by attempting to cover it up.

The Church also lost a good number of members and a whole pile of
money which could have been used for charitable purposes.

Fr. Ivo's arguments are good .....but they are equivalent to painting
the kitchen to make it look pretty, while the house is on fire.

http://www.colaco.net/3/church-lurch.htm

jc

* * *

UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at
Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is
available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564]
Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy.
Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *
) > Fr. Ivo vide Message: 7, dated: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 finally wrote on above
> subject: "Dear Dr.U.G.Barad, You are distorting my clarion-call and the
> teaching of Christianity by linking with "gay **** scandal" in Italy or in
> India. I have quoted Hindu wi**** and people of integrity..."
>
> My response: Fr. Ivo it is up to you to interpret on my straight-forward
> questions posed to you. In fact, your earlier message(s) prompted me to
> ask
> you those questions. Most importantly I have not linked Christianity with
> gay **** scandals. If at all you have to blame for destroying your
> clarion-call and your teachings ..blame those clergy involved in gay ****.
> For entire world knows the involvement of clergy in gay **** scandal as
> well
> as the apologetic response of most respected Benedict.

***Dear Dr.U.G.Barad,
There is no need to be so pessimistic. Scandals have always been in the
world. Jesus says:
"Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that
stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block
comes!" (NARB, Mt 18:7)). The Church is not going to fall because of those
scandals. Christianity cannot be judged by those scandals. We live in a time
in which media can give us a distorted image of the real reality. Also money
is involved in this issue. Where there is money, there is devil's workshop.
"The love of money is the root of all evil" (1 Tim 6:10). My answer to you
was in terms of the Hindu reformers and wi****. It is a difficult situation
for our beloved and great Pope Benedict XVI. There is a need to analyse the
whole situation: the **** revolution, the media hype, the economic power,
the political gimmicks... I did not speak about our problems of today. India
has to shine in the future, therefore we need introspection and hard work.

> More over, you being a clergy I thought I would get more clarity on the
> issues involved. But from your above answer I conclude that our "India
> will
> never shine" in the way you projected it earlier.
***I do not see any connection between the two points. Why should India not
shine if there are "gay scandals" in America? India has its problems, some
of them are rooted in the culture, others in the religion itself. All of us
need a cosntant renewal...
Regards.
Fr.Ivo

* * *

UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at
Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is
available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564]
Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy.
Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *
)

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29-07-2010 01:59 AM

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