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21-07-2010 02:32 AM

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I have a box of assorted 3.5" floppies, containing, amongst others:

SJ Nexus discs, including Server and client apps (several versions)
SJ Nexus Useful Tools
Acorn RISC OS 3 App disc 1, 2, Extras Extras
Arc Welcome Disc
RISC OS Apps Upgrade Disc 1
Acorn Ether1 network card AUN driver
Level 4 AUN FS release 2 disc 1, 2, 3
Level 4 FS beta release disc 1, 2
!AppFS release 2 disc 1, 2
3 Archimedes Diags discs (think these are homebrew diags)
Acorn A3000 dealer test disc
Acorn A4 dealer diagnostics
Evaluation copy of !AppFS
Backup copy of Master Welcome/Utilities disc ("L"/640k)
Acorn FileSnore Dealer Test Disc
Acorn FileSnore Dealer Utils Disc inc Welcome programs for M128
Acorn Econet Utilities - various network diags. Supplied by Carl
Sellers at Acorn.
Printer test disc for Archimedes
Technomatic technoSCAN v1.94 install disc for Technomatic hand held
scanner for Archimedes
Atomwide NetPRINT software
Oak !Classpld
Install disc for "Atomwide parallel port printing SCSI adapter" (no idea
what this is)
!Killer (virus detector) v1.500 Archimedes
Acorn CS News Issue 18
" issue 20
Acorn "Networking"
Impression Junior
Impression Junior 2
i^3 EtherLAN ROM software upgrade disc AUN EtherH v1.43beta, !AppFS
client v3
i^3 EtherLAN ROM software upgrade disc, EtherH v1.32
i^3 EtherLAN ROM software upgrade disc, EtherH v1.32

About half of these are originals as issued by Acorn/SJ/i^3 etc., the
others are copies.

I want these gone ASAP. Buyer collects (CH45 7PY) or pays P&P. Plus a
few quid for a beer for my trouble please.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

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___________________________________________________

Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. On 21/07/2010 02:32, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
>
> I have a box of assorted 3.5" floppies, containing, amongst others:
>
> Acorn FileSnore Dealer Test Disc
> Acorn FileSnore Dealer Utils Disc inc Welcome programs for M128

You did of course mean FileSTORE :)

Phill.

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. On 21/07/2010 03:32, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

> Acorn FileSnore Dealer Test Disc
> Acorn FileSnore Dealer Utils Disc inc Welcome programs for M128
> Acorn Econet Utilities - various network diags. Supplied by Carl
> Sellers at Acorn.

* * * * M A S S I V E G R O V E L * * * *

Whoever gets these, PLEASE send me a disc image of the above, esp. the
test disc. The documentation on the test disc refers to uncrunched
sources for the test software, however all the various doing the rounds
(which I suspect are actually copies of the same thing) has NO source
version of things like the AFS formatter. It is really unpleasant to try
to wade through compressed BASIC to work out technical details of the
FileStore filesystem.

Thank you.

* * * * M A S S I V E G R O V E L * * * *

Best wishes,

Rick.

--
Rick Murray, eeePC901 & ADSL WiFI'd into it, all ETLAs!
BBC B: DNFS, 2 x 5.25" floppies, EPROM prog, Acorn TTX
E01S FileStore, A3000/A5000/RiscPC/various PCs/blahblah...

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. In article <>, Phill Harvey-Smith
<> writes

>You did of course mean FileSTORE :)

Whoosh :-)

FileStores were dog slow, unreliable piles of expensive poo.

You could catch a quick nap while waiting for a FileSnore to trundle
data into your Beeb, hence the name.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. On 21 July 2010 02:32, Mike Tomlinson <> wrote:
>
> I have a box of assorted 3.5" floppies, containing, amongst others:

I'll take them! :-)

Mainly for the econet & filestore discs! Noting Rick's comments,
obviously I'll make images of these, and any others requested,
available to anybody else who wants them.

> I want these gone ASAP. �Buyer collects (CH45 7PY) or pays P&P. Plus a
> few quid for a beer for my trouble please.

Not a million miles away but ... how much is P&P and how much is the
tunnel toll these days? ;-)

Rob

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. On 21/07/2010 08:05, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

> FileStores were dog slow, unreliable piles of expensive poo.

Oi! You! Hang on!

Umm... Ummm... Ummm...

Damn.

Best wishes,

Rick.

PS: Actually a fair few 'reliability' problems instantly evaporated if
your admin:
1. Uses a REAL clock, not the FileStore's built in one.
2. Uses REAL termination.
3. Removes all the clock links to completely disable the FS clock.
It is often omitting step 3 that is the problem. If there is a fault
on the network (kids pulling out the clock box lead...) then the FS
will sense no clock and invoke its own. When the real clock is
restored by an irate teacher, you'll be looking at a network trying
to withstand two entirely different clocks.
And yes, they were *painfully* slow.

--
Rick Murray, eeePC901 & ADSL WiFI'd into it, all ETLAs!
BBC B: DNFS, 2 x 5.25" floppies, EPROM prog, Acorn TTX
E01S FileStore, A3000/A5000/RiscPC/various PCs/blahblah...

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. In article <
>, Rob <> writes

>Not a million miles away but ... how much is P&P and how much is the
>tunnel toll these days? ;-)

If you wanted just the discs and not the box, I think a fiver would
cover it. The tunnel's 1.40 each way. Thieving gits. They were
supposed to have been all paid for well before now.

If you come through the Wallasey tunnel, I'm a 5 minute drive from the
end of that.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. In article <>, Rick Murray <>
writes

>Whoever gets these, PLEASE send me a disc image of the above,

On their way to Rob, who should get them Monday morning. Images will
hopefully appear online sometime after that.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

_______________________________________________
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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. In article <>, Rick Murray <>
writes

>PS: Actually a fair few 'reliability' problems instantly evaporated if
> your admin:
> 1. Uses a REAL clock, not the FileStore's built in one.
> 2. Uses REAL termination.

indeed. But that applies to all Econets, of course.

> 3. Removes all the clock links to completely disable the FS clock.

A good idea, but this means disassembling the FileSnore. They were a
nightmare to take apart and never seemed to go back together quite right
afterwards.

And don't get me started on that stupid front flap with the optical
switch whose tab broke off if you so much as breathed on it, and the
catches that also broke off. I saw many FileSnores with a scrap of
paper wedged into the optical switch and/or the flap taped shut.

The power supply was also a weak point, suffering bad caps after
extended use, surprising as it was fairly well-cooled by the fan
underneath. The same fault applies to the Master Compact, which shares
the FileSnore hardware (not the motherboard, obviously) for its base
unit.

> And yes, they were *painfully* slow.

The very best Econet server was the SJ MDFS. Expensive but beautifully
designed and made and worth the extra moolah. Ran on a Z80 processor
which was a daring step, as up to then Acorn had done everything with
6502 variants.

SJ also produced some superb application notes on how to optimise the
speed of an Econet, taking in various factors. Their async mark/space
clock boxes could be tweaked to improve data rates, unlike Acorn's.
Indeed, Acorn stopped making their own clock boxes and started reselling
SJ's. I got dramatically improved network speeds with a small network
of Masters using short drop cables, for instance, 500k vs. the default
250k, but a Beeb plugged into that would report Net error or Line
jammed.

I had also intended to experiment with an installation not using the
drop leads, but taking the two network cables directly to the DIN plug
on the back of the machine. Removing the stubs from the network line
should have made it possible to increase the speed further. This would
have had to be hardwired, of course, to prevent someone unplugging the
machine from breaking the network, and would have meant two wires to
each station. I was going to use Cat5 cable for this as it was more
manageable than the lousy stuff Acorn recommended (CW1308?)

I used Cat5 for the test network (about 30m) I installed in the workshop
at an Acorn dealer. this was much easier to install and punch down into
the socket boxes and worked fine. I didn't bother trying to keep the
cable run continuous (not trying to avoid cutting it). Green/orange for
D+/D-, C+/C-, both browns for earth and blue unused.

The SJ app notes also discussed the network line speeds that could be
realistically achieved with certain mixes of machine (Beebs being the
lowest common denominator and requiring a slower clock than Masters, for
example.)

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. On 25/07/2010 06:51, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

>> 1. Uses a REAL clock, not the FileStore's built in one.
>> 2. Uses REAL termination.
> indeed. But that applies to all Econets, of course.

Well... You can run a 2-3v station network directly off the FileStore,
if you're lazy. :-)

It sucks, however, that the FileStore runs a 65C102 and can clock up the
RAM as there's no CRTC accesses to worry about... yet it runs at
Beeb-speed.

> A good idea, but this means disassembling the FileSnore. They were a
> nightmare to take apart and never seemed to go back together quite right
> afterwards.

Piece o'cake.

Prise off the back panel with the two tabs at the bottom. Once this is
away, the two side tabs will fall off. Flip it over and undo the six
screws, three a side. Now, unit upside down, loosen the two tabs for the
front panel. Hold the front panel in place, flip the unit over, the top
just slides away backwards. Then you can reach in and disconnect the
front panel.
Powered screwdriver, 90 seconds... :-)

> And don't get me started on that stupid front flap with the optical
> switch whose tab broke off if you so much as breathed on it,

Yeah... I've got so damn much tape holding my front panel on that I
unclip it to change floppies!

> and the catches that also broke off.

Given the solidity of the Beeb, the FileStore was something of a design
fail. The front panel looked good but it was waaaaaay too fragile.

I might make an easter egg in my emulator where the front panel can be
displayed all taped up. ;-)

> The power supply was also a weak point, suffering bad caps after
> extended use,

Eek!

> which was a daring step, as up to then Acorn had done everything
> with 6502 variants.

Given the SJ Bridge (65C02/ADLC) can keep up with Arcs, I wonder why the
FileStore is sooooo slow? Granted, a Bridge will be simpler internally
than a server, but it does show the response time is there... if only
Acorn knew where to find it!

> Their async mark/space clock boxes could be tweaked to improve data rates,

The SJ bridge took this a step further by making it almost
pointy-clicky. You could either select a set of timings, or you could
just select machine types, like "MDFS" or "BBC".

> (Beebs being the lowest common denominator

Well, they're effectively the slowest of the family. Just be glad the
Electron didn't have Econet!

Best wishes,

Rick.

--
Rick Murray, eeePC901 & ADSL WiFI'd into it, all ETLAs!
BBC B: DNFS, 2 x 5.25" floppies, EPROM prog, Acorn TTX
E01S FileStore, A3000/A5000/RiscPC/various PCs/blahblah...

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe. On 26 July 2010 00:11, Rick Murray <> wrote:
>> (Beebs being the lowest common denominator
>
> Well, they're effectively the slowest of the family. Just be glad the
> Electron didn't have Econet!

Hmm... I wonder if it would be possible, though. Shouldn't need much
to allow connection of a Master's module, and it might make one
****uely useful to me, then..

How fast did the System machines run, again? Those had econet ....

Rob

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Posted on the Bbc-micro mailing list. Go to http://lists.cloud9.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/bbc-micro to subscribe.
On 26 July 2010 00:23, Rob <> wrote:
> On 26 July 2010 00:11, Rick Murray <> wrote:
>>> (Beebs being the lowest common denominator
>>
>> Well, they're effectively the slowest of the family. Just be glad the
>> Electron didn't have Econet!
>
> Hmm... I wonder if it would be possible, though. �Shouldn't need much
> to allow connection of a Master's module, and it might make one
> ****uely useful to me, then..

I'm fairly sure that PRES (or someone) made an Electron Econet
interface that fitted a Plus 1 cartridge slot. Or my brain may be
playing tricks on me again.

--
Alex Taylor

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26-07-2010 02:14 AM

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