Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. McLuhan, wherever he says this, is reworking Thoreau, who in the Economy
chapter of "Walden" writes, "Men have become tools of their tools." Postman
alludes to this line at the beginning of "Technopoloy." I called attention
to this in the presentation I gave in Maine last month.


Matt Thomas

--

PhD Candidate

American Studies

University of Iowa




> And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
> our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.
>
> Roxanne
>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:
>
> > Hi, Jim and Alex --
> >
> > So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> > Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> > UM (an Amazon search, again.)
> >
> > The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> > Medium is the Message chapter.
> >
> > Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
> >
> >> Alex and Paul,
> >>
> >> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
> >> place
> >> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
> >>
> >> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
> >> the
> >> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
> >> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
> >> with an
> >> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
> >>
> >> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
> >> behold,"
> >> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
> >> paragraph just
> >> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
> >> titled
> >> "The Medium Is the Message."
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
> >>> American
> >>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
> >>> is a mass
> >>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
> >>> larger
> >>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
> >>> different.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
> >>> but the
> >>> quote is not on page 8
> >>>
> >>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
> >>> has once;
> >>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
> >>> this quote.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
> >>> please let
> >>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
> >>> much for
> >>> replying though........Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> ]
> >>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
> >>> 33, in the
> >>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
> >>> at
> >>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
> >>> "Medium is the
> >>> Massage," but my copies
> >>> also are at school.
> >>>
> >>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
> >>> p. 8 of
> >>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
> >>> Managers,
> >>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
> >>>
> >>> That was fun!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
> >>>> (but rarely
> >>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
> >>>> shape our
> >>> tools
> >>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
> >>>> it's in
> >>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
> >>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
> >>>> with
> >>>> underlined passages.
> >>>>
> >>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
> >>>> editor, Lewis
> >>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
> >>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
> >>>> 'we shape
> >>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
> >>>> the
> >>> diktats
> >>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
> >>>> fails to
> >>> tell
> >>>> us where he picked up that quote.
> >>>>
> >>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
> >>>> of UM, but
> >>> I
> >>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
> >>>> search with
> >>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
> >>>> citation and
> >>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
> >>>> underlined
> >>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
> >>>> Thanks.....Alex
> >>>> Kuskis
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. McLuhan, wherever he says this, is reworking Thoreau, who in the Economy
chapter of "Walden" writes, "Men have become tools of their tools." Postman
alludes to this line at the beginning of "Technopoloy." I called attention
to this in the presentation I gave in Maine last month.


Matt Thomas

--

PhD Candidate

American Studies

University of Iowa




> And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
> our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.
>
> Roxanne
>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:
>
> > Hi, Jim and Alex --
> >
> > So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> > Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> > UM (an Amazon search, again.)
> >
> > The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> > Medium is the Message chapter.
> >
> > Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
> >
> >> Alex and Paul,
> >>
> >> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
> >> place
> >> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
> >>
> >> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
> >> the
> >> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
> >> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
> >> with an
> >> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
> >>
> >> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
> >> behold,"
> >> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
> >> paragraph just
> >> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
> >> titled
> >> "The Medium Is the Message."
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
> >>> American
> >>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
> >>> is a mass
> >>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
> >>> larger
> >>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
> >>> different.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
> >>> but the
> >>> quote is not on page 8
> >>>
> >>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
> >>> has once;
> >>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
> >>> this quote.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
> >>> please let
> >>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
> >>> much for
> >>> replying though........Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> ]
> >>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
> >>> 33, in the
> >>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
> >>> at
> >>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
> >>> "Medium is the
> >>> Massage," but my copies
> >>> also are at school.
> >>>
> >>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
> >>> p. 8 of
> >>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
> >>> Managers,
> >>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
> >>>
> >>> That was fun!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
> >>>> (but rarely
> >>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
> >>>> shape our
> >>> tools
> >>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
> >>>> it's in
> >>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
> >>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
> >>>> with
> >>>> underlined passages.
> >>>>
> >>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
> >>>> editor, Lewis
> >>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
> >>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
> >>>> 'we shape
> >>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
> >>>> the
> >>> diktats
> >>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
> >>>> fails to
> >>> tell
> >>>> us where he picked up that quote.
> >>>>
> >>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
> >>>> of UM, but
> >>> I
> >>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
> >>>> search with
> >>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
> >>>> citation and
> >>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
> >>>> underlined
> >>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
> >>>> Thanks.....Alex
> >>>> Kuskis
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.

Lance

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. McLuhan, wherever he says this, is reworking Thoreau, who in the Economy
chapter of "Walden" writes, "Men have become tools of their tools." Postman
alludes to this line at the beginning of "Technopoloy." I called attention
to this in the presentation I gave in Maine last month.


Matt Thomas

--

PhD Candidate

American Studies

University of Iowa




> And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
> our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.
>
> Roxanne
>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:
>
> > Hi, Jim and Alex --
> >
> > So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> > Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> > UM (an Amazon search, again.)
> >
> > The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> > Medium is the Message chapter.
> >
> > Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
> >
> >> Alex and Paul,
> >>
> >> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
> >> place
> >> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
> >>
> >> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
> >> the
> >> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
> >> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
> >> with an
> >> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
> >>
> >> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
> >> behold,"
> >> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
> >> paragraph just
> >> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
> >> titled
> >> "The Medium Is the Message."
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
> >>> American
> >>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
> >>> is a mass
> >>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
> >>> larger
> >>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
> >>> different.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
> >>> but the
> >>> quote is not on page 8
> >>>
> >>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
> >>> has once;
> >>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
> >>> this quote.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
> >>> please let
> >>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
> >>> much for
> >>> replying though........Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> ]
> >>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
> >>> 33, in the
> >>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
> >>> at
> >>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
> >>> "Medium is the
> >>> Massage," but my copies
> >>> also are at school.
> >>>
> >>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
> >>> p. 8 of
> >>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
> >>> Managers,
> >>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
> >>>
> >>> That was fun!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
> >>>> (but rarely
> >>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
> >>>> shape our
> >>> tools
> >>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
> >>>> it's in
> >>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
> >>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
> >>>> with
> >>>> underlined passages.
> >>>>
> >>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
> >>>> editor, Lewis
> >>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
> >>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
> >>>> 'we shape
> >>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
> >>>> the
> >>> diktats
> >>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
> >>>> fails to
> >>> tell
> >>>> us where he picked up that quote.
> >>>>
> >>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
> >>>> of UM, but
> >>> I
> >>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
> >>>> search with
> >>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
> >>>> citation and
> >>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
> >>>> underlined
> >>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
> >>>> Thanks.....Alex
> >>>> Kuskis
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.

Lance

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
I guess we'll have to recall a few thousand students to set things
straight.

Alexandre

Le 10-07-06 à 16:02, LANCE A. STRATE a écrit :

> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter
> they
> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and
> appears
> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
> can be
> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
> derived
> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>
> Lance
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. McLuhan, wherever he says this, is reworking Thoreau, who in the Economy
chapter of "Walden" writes, "Men have become tools of their tools." Postman
alludes to this line at the beginning of "Technopoloy." I called attention
to this in the presentation I gave in Maine last month.


Matt Thomas

--

PhD Candidate

American Studies

University of Iowa




> And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
> our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.
>
> Roxanne
>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:
>
> > Hi, Jim and Alex --
> >
> > So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> > Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> > UM (an Amazon search, again.)
> >
> > The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> > Medium is the Message chapter.
> >
> > Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
> >
> >> Alex and Paul,
> >>
> >> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
> >> place
> >> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
> >>
> >> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
> >> the
> >> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
> >> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
> >> with an
> >> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
> >>
> >> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
> >> behold,"
> >> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
> >> paragraph just
> >> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
> >> titled
> >> "The Medium Is the Message."
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
> >>> American
> >>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
> >>> is a mass
> >>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
> >>> larger
> >>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
> >>> different.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
> >>> but the
> >>> quote is not on page 8
> >>>
> >>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
> >>> has once;
> >>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
> >>> this quote.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
> >>> please let
> >>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
> >>> much for
> >>> replying though........Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> ]
> >>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
> >>> 33, in the
> >>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
> >>> at
> >>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
> >>> "Medium is the
> >>> Massage," but my copies
> >>> also are at school.
> >>>
> >>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
> >>> p. 8 of
> >>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
> >>> Managers,
> >>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
> >>>
> >>> That was fun!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
> >>>> (but rarely
> >>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
> >>>> shape our
> >>> tools
> >>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
> >>>> it's in
> >>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
> >>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
> >>>> with
> >>>> underlined passages.
> >>>>
> >>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
> >>>> editor, Lewis
> >>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
> >>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
> >>>> 'we shape
> >>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
> >>>> the
> >>> diktats
> >>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
> >>>> fails to
> >>> tell
> >>>> us where he picked up that quote.
> >>>>
> >>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
> >>>> of UM, but
> >>> I
> >>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
> >>>> search with
> >>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
> >>>> citation and
> >>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
> >>>> underlined
> >>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
> >>>> Thanks.....Alex
> >>>> Kuskis
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.

Lance

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
I guess we'll have to recall a few thousand students to set things
straight.

Alexandre

Le 10-07-06 à 16:02, LANCE A. STRATE a écrit :

> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter
> they
> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and
> appears
> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
> can be
> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
> derived
> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>
> Lance
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
Dear MEAers - I stand guilty as charged with respect to the Extended
Mind but in my new book Understanding New Media:Extending Marshall
McLuhan to be shortly released by Peter Lang Publishing I got the
matter correct when I wrote the following below. I hope my reputation
as a scholar has been restored. :-)
Bob

A.10 The Flip: Humankind as an Extension of Its Technologies

“To behold, use or perceive any extension of ourselves in
technological forms is necessarily to embrace it. By continuously
embracing technologies, we relate ourselves to them as servo-
mechanisms (McLuhan 1964, 46).” At first, technology serves as an
extension of humankind but after awhile a subliminal flip takes place
and suddenly the user is transformed into an extension of the
technology they have come to consider part of them. This idea has
been expressed in the following oft-quoted remark: “We become what we
behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us.” This
quote has been attributed to McLuhan but it actually was coined by
John Culkin (1967). The mix up is due to the fact that the quote is
heard on a Columbia LP record about McLuhan’s book The Medium is the
Massage. The Culkin quote was probably inspired by a remark made by
Winston Churchill in 1943 talking about the need to rebuild the
Parliament Building that was damaged during an air raid over London.
“We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us.”

______________________

Robert K. Logan
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan

On 6-Jul-10, at 4:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Lance and everyone --
>
> An academic urban legend. Interesting that it is everywhere
> attributed to McLuhan. And it's not the students perpetuating the
> myth. We'll have to recall a few hundred books and articles. It's
> the McLuhan scholars who are behind it:
>
> Robert Logan in "The Extended Mind" on p. 225 cites McLuhan 1967 --
> maybe Medium is the Massage? I can't see the bibliography on google
> books. I read through MM and it isn't there.
>
> Derrick de Kerkhove in "McLuhan for Managers" on p. 27 cites UM, p.
> 8. It isn't there.
>
> And, of course, Lewis Lapham in the intro to the 1994 edition of
> UM. . .
>
> Meanwhile, Nicholas Carr in the new "The Shallows: What The
> Internet Is Doing to Our Brains," on p. 210 cites Culkin as source
> for the McLuhan quote. But where did McLuhan actually write it, or
> did he?
>
> FYI, I found a reference on p. 53 of "The Design of Business" by
> Roger Martin, 2009, to the Churchill quote, "We shape our
> buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us," Winston
> Churchill, British House of Commons, Oct. 28, 1943.
>
> Re: the we become what we behold quote, it is repeated in UM on p.
> 55 in the1964 Mentor paperback. And the first reference is on p. 33.
>
>> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and
>> thereafter they
>> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's,
>> and appears
>> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
>> can be
>> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
>> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
>> derived
>> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>>
>> Lance
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. McLuhan, wherever he says this, is reworking Thoreau, who in the Economy
chapter of "Walden" writes, "Men have become tools of their tools." Postman
alludes to this line at the beginning of "Technopoloy." I called attention
to this in the presentation I gave in Maine last month.


Matt Thomas

--

PhD Candidate

American Studies

University of Iowa




> And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
> our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.
>
> Roxanne
>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:
>
> > Hi, Jim and Alex --
> >
> > So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> > Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> > UM (an Amazon search, again.)
> >
> > The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> > Medium is the Message chapter.
> >
> > Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
> >
> >> Alex and Paul,
> >>
> >> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
> >> place
> >> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
> >>
> >> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
> >> the
> >> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
> >> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
> >> with an
> >> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
> >>
> >> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
> >> behold,"
> >> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
> >> paragraph just
> >> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
> >> titled
> >> "The Medium Is the Message."
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
> >>> American
> >>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
> >>> is a mass
> >>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
> >>> larger
> >>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
> >>> different.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
> >>> but the
> >>> quote is not on page 8
> >>>
> >>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
> >>> has once;
> >>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
> >>> this quote.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
> >>> please let
> >>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
> >>> much for
> >>> replying though........Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> ]
> >>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
> >>> 33, in the
> >>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
> >>> at
> >>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
> >>> "Medium is the
> >>> Massage," but my copies
> >>> also are at school.
> >>>
> >>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
> >>> p. 8 of
> >>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
> >>> Managers,
> >>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
> >>>
> >>> That was fun!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
> >>>> (but rarely
> >>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
> >>>> shape our
> >>> tools
> >>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
> >>>> it's in
> >>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
> >>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
> >>>> with
> >>>> underlined passages.
> >>>>
> >>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
> >>>> editor, Lewis
> >>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
> >>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
> >>>> 'we shape
> >>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
> >>>> the
> >>> diktats
> >>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
> >>>> fails to
> >>> tell
> >>>> us where he picked up that quote.
> >>>>
> >>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
> >>>> of UM, but
> >>> I
> >>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
> >>>> search with
> >>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
> >>>> citation and
> >>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
> >>>> underlined
> >>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
> >>>> Thanks.....Alex
> >>>> Kuskis
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.

Lance

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
I guess we'll have to recall a few thousand students to set things
straight.

Alexandre

Le 10-07-06 à 16:02, LANCE A. STRATE a écrit :

> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter
> they
> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and
> appears
> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
> can be
> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
> derived
> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>
> Lance
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
Dear MEAers - I stand guilty as charged with respect to the Extended
Mind but in my new book Understanding New Media:Extending Marshall
McLuhan to be shortly released by Peter Lang Publishing I got the
matter correct when I wrote the following below. I hope my reputation
as a scholar has been restored. :-)
Bob

A.10 The Flip: Humankind as an Extension of Its Technologies

“To behold, use or perceive any extension of ourselves in
technological forms is necessarily to embrace it. By continuously
embracing technologies, we relate ourselves to them as servo-
mechanisms (McLuhan 1964, 46).” At first, technology serves as an
extension of humankind but after awhile a subliminal flip takes place
and suddenly the user is transformed into an extension of the
technology they have come to consider part of them. This idea has
been expressed in the following oft-quoted remark: “We become what we
behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us.” This
quote has been attributed to McLuhan but it actually was coined by
John Culkin (1967). The mix up is due to the fact that the quote is
heard on a Columbia LP record about McLuhan’s book The Medium is the
Massage. The Culkin quote was probably inspired by a remark made by
Winston Churchill in 1943 talking about the need to rebuild the
Parliament Building that was damaged during an air raid over London.
“We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us.”

______________________

Robert K. Logan
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan

On 6-Jul-10, at 4:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Lance and everyone --
>
> An academic urban legend. Interesting that it is everywhere
> attributed to McLuhan. And it's not the students perpetuating the
> myth. We'll have to recall a few hundred books and articles. It's
> the McLuhan scholars who are behind it:
>
> Robert Logan in "The Extended Mind" on p. 225 cites McLuhan 1967 --
> maybe Medium is the Massage? I can't see the bibliography on google
> books. I read through MM and it isn't there.
>
> Derrick de Kerkhove in "McLuhan for Managers" on p. 27 cites UM, p.
> 8. It isn't there.
>
> And, of course, Lewis Lapham in the intro to the 1994 edition of
> UM. . .
>
> Meanwhile, Nicholas Carr in the new "The Shallows: What The
> Internet Is Doing to Our Brains," on p. 210 cites Culkin as source
> for the McLuhan quote. But where did McLuhan actually write it, or
> did he?
>
> FYI, I found a reference on p. 53 of "The Design of Business" by
> Roger Martin, 2009, to the Churchill quote, "We shape our
> buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us," Winston
> Churchill, British House of Commons, Oct. 28, 1943.
>
> Re: the we become what we behold quote, it is repeated in UM on p.
> 55 in the1964 Mentor paperback. And the first reference is on p. 33.
>
>> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and
>> thereafter they
>> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's,
>> and appears
>> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
>> can be
>> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
>> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
>> derived
>> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>>
>> Lance
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
Paul, Lance, Bob et al - sorry for the pause in my reply to this thread, but
I've been away at the Stratford (Ontario) Shakespeare Festival (aside -
Christopher Plummer's Prospero in Des McAnuff's The Tempest is brilliant,
aptly presented as a Renaissance magus). I don't think we need be too
dismayed about discovering that this quote originated from John Culkin
rather than McLuhan. It's fairly clear, isn't it, that the *idea* that the
quote articulates was McLuhan's and I doubt whether he needed help from
Winston Churchill in formulating it. The quote gets repeated because it so
succinctly expresses McLuhan's ideas in Chapter 4 (The Gadget Lover) of UM,
where he discusses the Narcissus myth and resulting narcosis induced by our
technological extensions:

"By continuously embracing technologies, we relate ourselves to them as
servomechanisms .... Physiologically, man in the normal use of technology
(or his variously extended body) is perpetually modified by it and in turn
finds ever new ways of modifying his technology." (UM, MIT Press edition, p.
46)

I note that Culkin's article in "McLuhan: Hot & Cool" (1967), was
copyrighted in 1966, two years after UM was published. And the book itself
is presented as a collection of articles, "Not so much a debate as a McLuhan
primer - a prologue to argument, a galaxy of opinion" (p xviii, Dial Press
hardcover edition). Culkin's quote, though expressed well enough to become
an oft-repeated quote does not appear to me to reflect original thinking on
his part, but rather a well-articulated reflection of McLuhan's ideas.
Still, the correction on attribution is good to have. Anyone
disagree?............Alex Kuskis
http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Lance and everyone --

An academic urban legend. Interesting that it is everywhere attributed to
McLuhan. And it's not the students perpetuating the myth. We'll have to
recall a few hundred books and articles. It's the McLuhan scholars who are
behind it:

Robert Logan in "The Extended Mind" on p. 225 cites McLuhan 1967 -- maybe
Medium is the Massage? I can't see the bibliography on google books. I read
through MM and it isn't there.

Derrick de Kerkhove in "McLuhan for Managers" on p. 27 cites UM, p. 8. It
isn't there.

And, of course, Lewis Lapham in the intro to the 1994 edition of UM. . .

Meanwhile, Nicholas Carr in the new "The Shallows: What The Internet Is
Doing to Our Brains," on p. 210 cites Culkin as source for the McLuhan
quote. But where did McLuhan actually write it, or did he?

FYI, I found a reference on p. 53 of "The Design of Business" by Roger
Martin, 2009, to the Churchill quote, "We shape our buildings, and
afterwards our buildings shape us," Winston Churchill, British House of
Commons, Oct. 28, 1943.

Re: the we become what we behold quote, it is repeated in UM on p. 55 in
the1964 Mentor paperback. And the first reference is on p. 33.

>the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
>shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
>on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
>found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
>Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
>from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>
>Lance
>


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.

Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
underlined passages.

The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
us where he picked up that quote.

One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
Kuskis

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers, online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.

I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
quote is not on page 8

I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.

If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
replying though........Alex


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
Massage," but my copies
also are at school.

"We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .

That was fun!

Thanks,
Paul

>Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
tools
>and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>underlined passages.
>
>The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>"Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
diktats
>of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
tell
>us where he picked up that quote.
>
>One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
I
>have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>Kuskis
>
>_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Alex and Paul,

I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.

However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.

My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
"The Medium Is the Message."

Jim



> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>
> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
> quote is not on page 8
>
> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>
> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
> replying though........Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
> Massage," but my copies
> also are at school.
>
> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>
> That was fun!
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
> tools
>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>> underlined passages.
>>
>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
> diktats
>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
> tell
>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>
>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
> I
>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>> Kuskis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. Hi, Jim and Alex --

So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from UM (an Amazon search, again.)

The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the Medium is the Message chapter.

Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "

>Alex and Paul,
>
>I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only place
>I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>
>However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is the
>Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us," with an
>emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>
>My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we behold,"
>attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the paragraph just
>before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter titled
>"The Medium Is the Message."
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New American
>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This is a mass
>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade, larger
>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been different.
>>
>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing), but the
>> quote is not on page 8
>>
>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife has once;
>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find this quote.
>>
>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office, please let
>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so much for
>> replying though........Alex
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>
>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p. 33, in the
>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is at
>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the "Medium is the
>> Massage," but my copies
>> also are at school.
>>
>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as p. 8 of
>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for Managers,
>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>
>> That was fun!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known (but rarely
>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We shape our
>> tools
>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know it's in
>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up with
>>> underlined passages.
>>>
>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the editor, Lewis
>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that 'we shape
>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines the
>> diktats
>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham fails to
>> tell
>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>
>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters of UM, but
>> I
>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a search with
>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged citation and
>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it underlined
>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help? Thanks.....Alex
>>> Kuskis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.

Roxanne

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Jim and Alex --
>
> So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> UM (an Amazon search, again.)
>
> The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> Medium is the Message chapter.
>
> Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
>
>> Alex and Paul,
>>
>> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
>> place
>> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
>>
>> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
>> the
>> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
>> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
>> with an
>> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
>>
>> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
>> behold,"
>> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
>> paragraph just
>> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
>> titled
>> "The Medium Is the Message."
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
>>> American
>>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
>>> is a mass
>>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
>>> larger
>>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
>>> different.
>>>
>>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
>>> but the
>>> quote is not on page 8
>>>
>>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
>>> has once;
>>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
>>> this quote.
>>>
>>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
>>> please let
>>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
>>> much for
>>> replying though........Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>>>
>>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
>>> 33, in the
>>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
>>> at
>>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
>>> "Medium is the
>>> Massage," but my copies
>>> also are at school.
>>>
>>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
>>> p. 8 of
>>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
>>> Managers,
>>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
>>>
>>> That was fun!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
>>>> (but rarely
>>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
>>>> shape our
>>> tools
>>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
>>>> it's in
>>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
>>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
>>>> with
>>>> underlined passages.
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
>>>> editor, Lewis
>>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
>>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
>>>> 'we shape
>>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
>>>> the
>>> diktats
>>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
>>>> fails to
>>> tell
>>>> us where he picked up that quote.
>>>>
>>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
>>>> of UM, but
>>> I
>>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
>>>> search with
>>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
>>>> citation and
>>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
>>>> underlined
>>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
>>>> Thanks.....Alex
>>>> Kuskis
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. McLuhan, wherever he says this, is reworking Thoreau, who in the Economy
chapter of "Walden" writes, "Men have become tools of their tools." Postman
alludes to this line at the beginning of "Technopoloy." I called attention
to this in the presentation I gave in Maine last month.


Matt Thomas

--

PhD Candidate

American Studies

University of Iowa




> And the interesting thing is that I believe he borrowed the "we shape
> our tools and our tools shape us" from something Winston Churchill said.
>
> Roxanne
>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:
>
> > Hi, Jim and Alex --
> >
> > So p. 33 would hold for "we come what we behold." It is in the
> > Essential McLuhan on p. 157, with Schramm paragraph following, from
> > UM (an Amazon search, again.)
> >
> > The same quote is on p. 20 of the Routledge edition of UM, in the
> > Medium is the Message chapter.
> >
> > Still searching for "we shape our tools . . . "
> >
> >> Alex and Paul,
> >>
> >> I've also looked for the tools passage over the years, and the only
> >> place
> >> I've seen it is in Lapham's Introduction in the MIT Press edition.
> >>
> >> However, in the Columbia Records studio recording of The Medium Is
> >> the
> >> Massage (produced by John Simon), a Gabby Hayes-sounding voice in the
> >> background says, "We shape our tools, and then our tools ape us,"
> >> with an
> >> emphasis on "ape." That's as close as I've gotten.
> >>
> >> My New American Library Signet edition has "we become what we
> >> behold,"
> >> attributed to "the Psalmist," on p. 33. It's the end of the
> >> paragraph just
> >> before the discussion of Wilbur Schramm's research, in the chapter
> >> titled
> >> "The Medium Is the Message."
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Paul, this is getting curioser and curioser. I have a 1964 New
> >>> American
> >>> Library Signet edition of UM and the quote is NOT on p. 33. This
> >>> is a mass
> >>> market paperback and the Mentor edition would have been a trade,
> >>> larger
> >>> format paperback, but I doubt if the pagination would have been
> >>> different.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the 1964 McGraw-Hill hardcover edition (3rd printing),
> >>> but the
> >>> quote is not on page 8
> >>>
> >>> I've also gone through The Medium is the Massage twice and my wife
> >>> has once;
> >>> the text is not very substantial, but neither of us could find
> >>> this quote.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a chance to find it when you go back to your office,
> >>> please let
> >>> me know. This remains unresolved and a mystery to me. Thank you so
> >>> much for
> >>> replying though........Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> ]
> >>> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alex -- "We become what we behold" is in my edition of UM, p.
> >>> 33, in the
> >>> 1964 Mentor paperback. I have the cite in my diss, but the book is
> >>> at
> >>> school. Are the two quotes together? I think both are in the
> >>> "Medium is the
> >>> Massage," but my copies
> >>> also are at school.
> >>>
> >>> "We shape our tools and theafterp our tools shape us" is cited as
> >>> p. 8 of
> >>> UM (1964) McGraw-Hill, in Federman/de Kerckhove's "McLuhan for
> >>> Managers,
> >>> online at Amazon, p. 27. . . . .
> >>>
> >>> That was fun!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> Can anybody help me with the precise source of this well-known
> >>>> (but rarely
> >>>> properly cited) McLuhan quote: "We become what we behold. We
> >>>> shape our
> >>> tools
> >>>> and thereafter our tools shape us" (McLuhan, 1964, p.?). I know
> >>>> it's in
> >>>> Understanding Media, but darned if I can find it in any one of my 4
> >>>> editions, not even the MIT Press edition, which is all marked up
> >>>> with
> >>>> underlined passages.
> >>>>
> >>>> The closest I've come is that in the MIT Press edition, the
> >>>> editor, Lewis
> >>>> Lapham, writes near the bottom of page xi -
> >>>> "Beginning from the premise that 'we become what we behold,' that
> >>>> 'we shape
> >>>> our tools, and there-after our tools shape us,' McLuhan examines
> >>>> the
> >>> diktats
> >>>> of two technological revolutions .... ". Unfortunately, Lapham
> >>>> fails to
> >>> tell
> >>>> us where he picked up that quote.
> >>>>
> >>>> One would think that it would be in one of the first 7 chapters
> >>>> of UM, but
> >>> I
> >>>> have not found it. I've also done a Google search and also a
> >>>> search with
> >>>> Google Scholar, where I hoped I'd find a properly acknowledged
> >>>> citation and
> >>>> reference. No luck. Somebody out there on this list must have it
> >>>> underlined
> >>>> in their copy of Understanding Media. Can anyone help?
> >>>> Thanks.....Alex
> >>>> Kuskis
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe. the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.

Lance

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
I guess we'll have to recall a few thousand students to set things
straight.

Alexandre

Le 10-07-06 à 16:02, LANCE A. STRATE a écrit :

> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter
> they
> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and
> appears
> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
> can be
> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
> derived
> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>
> Lance
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
Dear MEAers - I stand guilty as charged with respect to the Extended
Mind but in my new book Understanding New Media:Extending Marshall
McLuhan to be shortly released by Peter Lang Publishing I got the
matter correct when I wrote the following below. I hope my reputation
as a scholar has been restored. :-)
Bob

A.10 The Flip: Humankind as an Extension of Its Technologies

“To behold, use or perceive any extension of ourselves in
technological forms is necessarily to embrace it. By continuously
embracing technologies, we relate ourselves to them as servo-
mechanisms (McLuhan 1964, 46).” At first, technology serves as an
extension of humankind but after awhile a subliminal flip takes place
and suddenly the user is transformed into an extension of the
technology they have come to consider part of them. This idea has
been expressed in the following oft-quoted remark: “We become what we
behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us.” This
quote has been attributed to McLuhan but it actually was coined by
John Culkin (1967). The mix up is due to the fact that the quote is
heard on a Columbia LP record about McLuhan’s book The Medium is the
Massage. The Culkin quote was probably inspired by a remark made by
Winston Churchill in 1943 talking about the need to rebuild the
Parliament Building that was damaged during an air raid over London.
“We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us.”

______________________

Robert K. Logan
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan

On 6-Jul-10, at 4:51 PM, Paul Grosswiler wrote:

> Hi, Lance and everyone --
>
> An academic urban legend. Interesting that it is everywhere
> attributed to McLuhan. And it's not the students perpetuating the
> myth. We'll have to recall a few hundred books and articles. It's
> the McLuhan scholars who are behind it:
>
> Robert Logan in "The Extended Mind" on p. 225 cites McLuhan 1967 --
> maybe Medium is the Massage? I can't see the bibliography on google
> books. I read through MM and it isn't there.
>
> Derrick de Kerkhove in "McLuhan for Managers" on p. 27 cites UM, p.
> 8. It isn't there.
>
> And, of course, Lewis Lapham in the intro to the 1994 edition of
> UM. . .
>
> Meanwhile, Nicholas Carr in the new "The Shallows: What The
> Internet Is Doing to Our Brains," on p. 210 cites Culkin as source
> for the McLuhan quote. But where did McLuhan actually write it, or
> did he?
>
> FYI, I found a reference on p. 53 of "The Design of Business" by
> Roger Martin, 2009, to the Churchill quote, "We shape our
> buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us," Winston
> Churchill, British House of Commons, Oct. 28, 1943.
>
> Re: the we become what we behold quote, it is repeated in UM on p.
> 55 in the1964 Mentor paperback. And the first reference is on p. 33.
>
>> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and
>> thereafter they
>> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's,
>> and appears
>> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
>> can be
>> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
>> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
>> derived
>> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>>
>> Lance
>>
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
Paul, Lance, Bob et al - sorry for the pause in my reply to this thread, but
I've been away at the Stratford (Ontario) Shakespeare Festival (aside -
Christopher Plummer's Prospero in Des McAnuff's The Tempest is brilliant,
aptly presented as a Renaissance magus). I don't think we need be too
dismayed about discovering that this quote originated from John Culkin
rather than McLuhan. It's fairly clear, isn't it, that the *idea* that the
quote articulates was McLuhan's and I doubt whether he needed help from
Winston Churchill in formulating it. The quote gets repeated because it so
succinctly expresses McLuhan's ideas in Chapter 4 (The Gadget Lover) of UM,
where he discusses the Narcissus myth and resulting narcosis induced by our
technological extensions:

"By continuously embracing technologies, we relate ourselves to them as
servomechanisms .... Physiologically, man in the normal use of technology
(or his variously extended body) is perpetually modified by it and in turn
finds ever new ways of modifying his technology." (UM, MIT Press edition, p.
46)

I note that Culkin's article in "McLuhan: Hot & Cool" (1967), was
copyrighted in 1966, two years after UM was published. And the book itself
is presented as a collection of articles, "Not so much a debate as a McLuhan
primer - a prologue to argument, a galaxy of opinion" (p xviii, Dial Press
hardcover edition). Culkin's quote, though expressed well enough to become
an oft-repeated quote does not appear to me to reflect original thinking on
his part, but rather a well-articulated reflection of McLuhan's ideas.
Still, the correction on attribution is good to have. Anyone
disagree?............Alex Kuskis
http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote

Hi, Lance and everyone --

An academic urban legend. Interesting that it is everywhere attributed to
McLuhan. And it's not the students perpetuating the myth. We'll have to
recall a few hundred books and articles. It's the McLuhan scholars who are
behind it:

Robert Logan in "The Extended Mind" on p. 225 cites McLuhan 1967 -- maybe
Medium is the Massage? I can't see the bibliography on google books. I read
through MM and it isn't there.

Derrick de Kerkhove in "McLuhan for Managers" on p. 27 cites UM, p. 8. It
isn't there.

And, of course, Lewis Lapham in the intro to the 1994 edition of UM. . .

Meanwhile, Nicholas Carr in the new "The Shallows: What The Internet Is
Doing to Our Brains," on p. 210 cites Culkin as source for the McLuhan
quote. But where did McLuhan actually write it, or did he?

FYI, I found a reference on p. 53 of "The Design of Business" by Roger
Martin, 2009, to the Churchill quote, "We shape our buildings, and
afterwards our buildings shape us," Winston Churchill, British House of
Commons, Oct. 28, 1943.

Re: the we become what we behold quote, it is repeated in UM on p. 55 in
the1964 Mentor paperback. And the first reference is on p. 33.

>the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and thereafter they
>shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's, and appears
>on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also can be
>found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
>Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly derived
>from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>
>Lance
>


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.
I agree -
______________________

Robert K. Logan
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan

On 9-Jul-10, at 11:07 AM, Alex Kuskis wrote:

> Paul, Lance, Bob et al - sorry for the pause in my reply to this
> thread, but
> I've been away at the Stratford (Ontario) Shakespeare Festival
> (aside -
> Christopher Plummer's Prospero in Des McAnuff's The Tempest is
> brilliant,
> aptly presented as a Renaissance magus). I don't think we need be too
> dismayed about discovering that this quote originated from John Culkin
> rather than McLuhan. It's fairly clear, isn't it, that the *idea*
> that the
> quote articulates was McLuhan's and I doubt whether he needed help
> from
> Winston Churchill in formulating it. The quote gets repeated
> because it so
> succinctly expresses McLuhan's ideas in Chapter 4 (The Gadget
> Lover) of UM,
> where he discusses the Narcissus myth and resulting narcosis
> induced by our
> technological extensions:
>
> "By continuously embracing technologies, we relate ourselves to
> them as
> servomechanisms .... Physiologically, man in the normal use of
> technology
> (or his variously extended body) is perpetually modified by it and
> in turn
> finds ever new ways of modifying his technology." (UM, MIT Press
> edition, p.
> 46)
>
> I note that Culkin's article in "McLuhan: Hot & Cool" (1967), was
> copyrighted in 1966, two years after UM was published. And the book
> itself
> is presented as a collection of articles, "Not so much a debate as
> a McLuhan
> primer - a prologue to argument, a galaxy of opinion" (p xviii,
> Dial Press
> hardcover edition). Culkin's quote, though expressed well enough to
> become
> an oft-repeated quote does not appear to me to reflect original
> thinking on
> his part, but rather a well-articulated reflection of McLuhan's ideas.
> Still, the correction on attribution is good to have. Anyone
> disagree?............Alex Kuskis
> http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Paul Grosswiler
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [MEA] Request for the Precise Source of a McLuhan Quote
>
> Hi, Lance and everyone --
>
> An academic urban legend. Interesting that it is everywhere
> attributed to
> McLuhan. And it's not the students perpetuating the myth. We'll
> have to
> recall a few hundred books and articles. It's the McLuhan scholars
> who are
> behind it:
>
> Robert Logan in "The Extended Mind" on p. 225 cites McLuhan 1967 --
> maybe
> Medium is the Massage? I can't see the bibliography on google
> books. I read
> through MM and it isn't there.
>
> Derrick de Kerkhove in "McLuhan for Managers" on p. 27 cites UM, p.
> 8. It
> isn't there.
>
> And, of course, Lewis Lapham in the intro to the 1994 edition of
> UM. . .
>
> Meanwhile, Nicholas Carr in the new "The Shallows: What The
> Internet Is
> Doing to Our Brains," on p. 210 cites Culkin as source for the McLuhan
> quote. But where did McLuhan actually write it, or did he?
>
> FYI, I found a reference on p. 53 of "The Design of Business" by Roger
> Martin, 2009, to the Churchill quote, "We shape our buildings, and
> afterwards our buildings shape us," Winston Churchill, British
> House of
> Commons, Oct. 28, 1943.
>
> Re: the we become what we behold quote, it is repeated in UM on p.
> 55 in
> the1964 Mentor paperback. And the first reference is on p. 33.
>
>> the reason why you can't find the "we shape our tools and
>> thereafter they
>> shape us" quote is that it's not McLuhan's, it's John Culkin's,
>> and appears
>> on p. 52 of the paperback edition of McLuhan Hot and Cool (it also
>> can be
>> found, unattributed, on the al**** cover to the audio recording of The
>> Medium is the Massage). Roxanne rightly notes that it is clearly
>> derived
>> from Churchill's more specific quote about architecture.
>>
>> Lance
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MEA mailing list. Go to http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea to subscribe.