Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



________________________________
From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

________________________________
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators



Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
________________________________

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



________________________________
From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

________________________________
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators



Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
________________________________

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


is everybody sure that the 'low discrepancy rate'  is necessarily a
good thing... 

----- Original Message -----
From: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
To:"VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:57:46 +0000
Subject:Re: [English] expected qualities

 

Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will
often go off into tangents separating their exploration of
the iissues from the text itself; so for example a _Year of
Wonders_  response might wander off into a discussion of the plague
in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which
is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London.  The student
themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria,
but they are not addressing the text.  The phrase which worries you
is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a
context which has a substantial link to the content of the text.
(Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper
but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat
duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)

 

You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance'
decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't
tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking.
An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate
scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the
degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater
strength in one area over another when compared one to the other.  It
sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate
(assessors disagreeing)

 

Gail

 
-------------------------
FROM: english-
[english-] on behalf of
[]
SENT: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
CC:
SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...   I don’t have an
issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging
feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is
redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the
text.  Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t
understand why it’s there.  Also your point about “understanding
the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than
a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with
the world of the text, not real world elements... I also wonder what
is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie
the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be?  Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?   Thanks
again,   Russell   FROM: Julie [1] SENT: Monday, July 09,
2012 8:50 PM TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List [2] CC:
mailto: [3] SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected
qualities   Hi Russell,   The key words in this description, for
me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'.  The thinking
associated with these words is quite sophisticated.  While we hope
that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually
clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The
basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best
response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.    It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in
student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards, Julie Squires
On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, wrote:

HI   I’M LOOKING AT THE 2011 EXPECTED QUALITIES (READING AND
RESPONDING) FOR EXAM MARKERS AND WONDER WHAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BY THE
TERM... “DEMONSTRATES AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE
TOPIC...EXPLORING ITS COMPLEXITY FROM THE BASIS OF THE TEXT.”  I
NOTE THAT THIS EXPECTED QUALITY IS ONLY REFERRED TO IN THE 8-10 MARK
RANGE.  ONE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT MOST STUDENTS WOULD USE THE TEXT
AS THE BASIS FOR THEIR RESPONSE; OR AM I MISSING THE POINT...?  
HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[5]   RUSSELL   FROM: Lorraine Paul [6] SENT: Sunday, July
08, 2012 7:58 PM TO: [7] SUBJECT: Re:
[English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators  
Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you
have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

-------------------------
From: [8]
To: [9]
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access
the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.

 

Mary

 

FROM: english- [10]
[mailto:english-] ON BEHALF OF Lorraine Paul
SENT: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
TO: [11]
SUBJECT: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

 

Hello Mary,

Is this open only to  State School Teachers ?
Lorraine !

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From: [12]
To: [13]
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary

 

Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.

 

Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on
designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State
School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for
teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent
materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask
questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with
other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual
discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools
,who are presently teaching  VCE, who would be willing to trial and
help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers.
Participation  will count towards professional development time and
will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are
welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to
pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on
my email: [15] if you are able to participate.
The trial will be  in Term 3 and will  involve you loggi! ng into
the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us
your comments.

 

Best wishes

 

Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [16] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [17] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [18] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [19] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [20] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [21] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [22] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [23] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [24] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [25] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [26] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [27] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of
English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Links:
------
[1] mailto:
[2] mailto:
[3] mailto:
[4] mailto:
[5]
http://webmail.netspace.net.au/HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[6] mailto:
[7] mailto:
[8] mailto:
[9] mailto:
[10] mailto:english-
[11] mailto:
[12] mailto:
[13] mailto:
[14] mailto:
[15] mailto:
[16] http://www.edulists.com.au
[17] http://www.vate.org.au
[18] http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html
[19] http://www.edulists.com.au
[20] http://www.vate.org.au
[21] http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html
[22] http://www.edulists.com.au
[23] http://www.vate.org.au
[24] http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html
[25] http://www.edulistscom.au
[26] http://www.vate.org.au
[27] http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



________________________________
From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

________________________________
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators



Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
________________________________

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


is everybody sure that the 'low discrepancy rate'  is necessarily a
good thing... 

----- Original Message -----
From: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
To:"VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:57:46 +0000
Subject:Re: [English] expected qualities

 

Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will
often go off into tangents separating their exploration of
the iissues from the text itself; so for example a _Year of
Wonders_  response might wander off into a discussion of the plague
in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which
is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London.  The student
themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria,
but they are not addressing the text.  The phrase which worries you
is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a
context which has a substantial link to the content of the text.
(Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper
but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat
duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)

 

You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance'
decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't
tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking.
An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate
scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the
degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater
strength in one area over another when compared one to the other.  It
sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate
(assessors disagreeing)

 

Gail

 
-------------------------
FROM: english-
[english-] on behalf of
[]
SENT: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
CC:
SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...   I don’t have an
issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging
feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is
redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the
text.  Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t
understand why it’s there.  Also your point about “understanding
the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than
a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with
the world of the text, not real world elements... I also wonder what
is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie
the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be?  Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?   Thanks
again,   Russell   FROM: Julie [1] SENT: Monday, July 09,
2012 8:50 PM TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List [2] CC:
mailto: [3] SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected
qualities   Hi Russell,   The key words in this description, for
me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'.  The thinking
associated with these words is quite sophisticated.  While we hope
that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually
clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The
basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best
response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.    It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in
student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards, Julie Squires
On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, wrote:

HI   I’M LOOKING AT THE 2011 EXPECTED QUALITIES (READING AND
RESPONDING) FOR EXAM MARKERS AND WONDER WHAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BY THE
TERM... “DEMONSTRATES AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE
TOPIC...EXPLORING ITS COMPLEXITY FROM THE BASIS OF THE TEXT.”  I
NOTE THAT THIS EXPECTED QUALITY IS ONLY REFERRED TO IN THE 8-10 MARK
RANGE.  ONE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT MOST STUDENTS WOULD USE THE TEXT
AS THE BASIS FOR THEIR RESPONSE; OR AM I MISSING THE POINT...?  
HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[5]   RUSSELL   FROM: Lorraine Paul [6] SENT: Sunday, July
08, 2012 7:58 PM TO: [7] SUBJECT: Re:
[English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators  
Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you
have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

-------------------------
From: [8]
To: [9]
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access
the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.

 

Mary

 

FROM: english- [10]
[mailto:english-] ON BEHALF OF Lorraine Paul
SENT: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
TO: [11]
SUBJECT: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

 

Hello Mary,

Is this open only to  State School Teachers ?
Lorraine !

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From: [12]
To: [13]
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary

 

Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.

 

Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on
designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State
School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for
teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent
materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask
questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with
other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual
discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools
,who are presently teaching  VCE, who would be willing to trial and
help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers.
Participation  will count towards professional development time and
will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are
welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to
pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on
my email: [15] if you are able to participate.
The trial will be  in Term 3 and will  involve you loggi! ng into
the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us
your comments.

 

Best wishes

 

Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before
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Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
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the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [16] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [17] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [18] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [19] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [20] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [21] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [22] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [23] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [24] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [25] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [26] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [27] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of
English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
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the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
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Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Links:
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Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




From: Reynolds, Gail G
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

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http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
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VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


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_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



________________________________
From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

________________________________
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators



Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
________________________________

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


is everybody sure that the 'low discrepancy rate'  is necessarily a
good thing... 

----- Original Message -----
From: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
To:"VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:57:46 +0000
Subject:Re: [English] expected qualities

 

Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will
often go off into tangents separating their exploration of
the iissues from the text itself; so for example a _Year of
Wonders_  response might wander off into a discussion of the plague
in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which
is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London.  The student
themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria,
but they are not addressing the text.  The phrase which worries you
is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a
context which has a substantial link to the content of the text.
(Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper
but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat
duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)

 

You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance'
decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't
tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking.
An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate
scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the
degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater
strength in one area over another when compared one to the other.  It
sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate
(assessors disagreeing)

 

Gail

 
-------------------------
FROM: english-
[english-] on behalf of
[]
SENT: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
CC:
SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...   I don’t have an
issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging
feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is
redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the
text.  Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t
understand why it’s there.  Also your point about “understanding
the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than
a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with
the world of the text, not real world elements... I also wonder what
is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie
the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be?  Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?   Thanks
again,   Russell   FROM: Julie [1] SENT: Monday, July 09,
2012 8:50 PM TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List [2] CC:
mailto: [3] SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected
qualities   Hi Russell,   The key words in this description, for
me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'.  The thinking
associated with these words is quite sophisticated.  While we hope
that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually
clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The
basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best
response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.    It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in
student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards, Julie Squires
On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, wrote:

HI   I’M LOOKING AT THE 2011 EXPECTED QUALITIES (READING AND
RESPONDING) FOR EXAM MARKERS AND WONDER WHAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BY THE
TERM... “DEMONSTRATES AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE
TOPIC...EXPLORING ITS COMPLEXITY FROM THE BASIS OF THE TEXT.”  I
NOTE THAT THIS EXPECTED QUALITY IS ONLY REFERRED TO IN THE 8-10 MARK
RANGE.  ONE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT MOST STUDENTS WOULD USE THE TEXT
AS THE BASIS FOR THEIR RESPONSE; OR AM I MISSING THE POINT...?  
HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[5]   RUSSELL   FROM: Lorraine Paul [6] SENT: Sunday, July
08, 2012 7:58 PM TO: [7] SUBJECT: Re:
[English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators  
Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you
have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

-------------------------
From: [8]
To: [9]
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access
the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.

 

Mary

 

FROM: english- [10]
[mailto:english-] ON BEHALF OF Lorraine Paul
SENT: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
TO: [11]
SUBJECT: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

 

Hello Mary,

Is this open only to  State School Teachers ?
Lorraine !

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From: [12]
To: [13]
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary

 

Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.

 

Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on
designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State
School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for
teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent
materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask
questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with
other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual
discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools
,who are presently teaching  VCE, who would be willing to trial and
help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers.
Participation  will count towards professional development time and
will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are
welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to
pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on
my email: [15] if you are able to participate.
The trial will be  in Term 3 and will  involve you loggi! ng into
the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us
your comments.

 

Best wishes

 

Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [16] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [17] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [18] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [19] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [20] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [21] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [22] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [23] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [24] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [25] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [26] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [27] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of
English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Links:
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[2] mailto:
[3] mailto:
[4] mailto:
[5]
http://webmail.netspace.net.au/HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[6] mailto:
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Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




From: Reynolds, Gail G
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

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http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
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http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

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_______________________________________________
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VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
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Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Wondering if there�s any other assessors on this thread who care to comment on the descriptor in question... Personally, and professionally I might add, I find this an interesting issue. If these descriptors hold any weight at all in the assessment process then don�t we have an obligation to understand them; or if they are poorly written then at least identify their shortcomings and deal with it...?

The key questions once again are: What is the basis of the text? For instance, what is the basis of, say, Cat�s Eye? And what is meant by an appropriate strategy for dealing with it (ie the topic) and why is there no need for a strategy (appropriate or otherwise) below the 9-10 range?

Thanks

Russell

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



________________________________
From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

________________________________
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators



Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
________________________________

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


is everybody sure that the 'low discrepancy rate'  is necessarily a
good thing... 

----- Original Message -----
From: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
To:"VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:57:46 +0000
Subject:Re: [English] expected qualities

 

Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will
often go off into tangents separating their exploration of
the iissues from the text itself; so for example a _Year of
Wonders_  response might wander off into a discussion of the plague
in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which
is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London.  The student
themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria,
but they are not addressing the text.  The phrase which worries you
is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a
context which has a substantial link to the content of the text.
(Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper
but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat
duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)

 

You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance'
decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't
tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking.
An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate
scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the
degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater
strength in one area over another when compared one to the other.  It
sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate
(assessors disagreeing)

 

Gail

 
-------------------------
FROM: english-
[english-] on behalf of
[]
SENT: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
CC:
SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...   I don’t have an
issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging
feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is
redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the
text.  Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t
understand why it’s there.  Also your point about “understanding
the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than
a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with
the world of the text, not real world elements... I also wonder what
is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie
the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be?  Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?   Thanks
again,   Russell   FROM: Julie [1] SENT: Monday, July 09,
2012 8:50 PM TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List [2] CC:
mailto: [3] SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected
qualities   Hi Russell,   The key words in this description, for
me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'.  The thinking
associated with these words is quite sophisticated.  While we hope
that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually
clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The
basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best
response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.    It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in
student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards, Julie Squires
On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, wrote:

HI   I’M LOOKING AT THE 2011 EXPECTED QUALITIES (READING AND
RESPONDING) FOR EXAM MARKERS AND WONDER WHAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BY THE
TERM... “DEMONSTRATES AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE
TOPIC...EXPLORING ITS COMPLEXITY FROM THE BASIS OF THE TEXT.”  I
NOTE THAT THIS EXPECTED QUALITY IS ONLY REFERRED TO IN THE 8-10 MARK
RANGE.  ONE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT MOST STUDENTS WOULD USE THE TEXT
AS THE BASIS FOR THEIR RESPONSE; OR AM I MISSING THE POINT...?  
HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[5]   RUSSELL   FROM: Lorraine Paul [6] SENT: Sunday, July
08, 2012 7:58 PM TO: [7] SUBJECT: Re:
[English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators  
Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you
have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

-------------------------
From: [8]
To: [9]
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access
the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.

 

Mary

 

FROM: english- [10]
[mailto:english-] ON BEHALF OF Lorraine Paul
SENT: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
TO: [11]
SUBJECT: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

 

Hello Mary,

Is this open only to  State School Teachers ?
Lorraine !

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From: [12]
To: [13]
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary

 

Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.

 

Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on
designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State
School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for
teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent
materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask
questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with
other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual
discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools
,who are presently teaching  VCE, who would be willing to trial and
help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers.
Participation  will count towards professional development time and
will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are
welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to
pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on
my email: [15] if you are able to participate.
The trial will be  in Term 3 and will  involve you loggi! ng into
the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us
your comments.

 

Best wishes

 

Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [16] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [17] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [18] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [19] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [20] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [21] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [22] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [23] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [24] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [25] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [26] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [27] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of
English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

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Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
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any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
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Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Links:
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[2] mailto:
[3] mailto:
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[5]
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[6] mailto:
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Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




From: Reynolds, Gail G
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Wondering if there�s any other assessors on this thread who care to comment on the descriptor in question... Personally, and professionally I might add, I find this an interesting issue. If these descriptors hold any weight at all in the assessment process then don�t we have an obligation to understand them; or if they are poorly written then at least identify their shortcomings and deal with it...?

The key questions once again are: What is the basis of the text? For instance, what is the basis of, say, Cat�s Eye? And what is meant by an appropriate strategy for dealing with it (ie the topic) and why is there no need for a strategy (appropriate or otherwise) below the 9-10 range?

Thanks

Russell

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hi - I am not an assessor now but given that there are multiple readings of
texts I guess that what this descriptor is saying is that any reading must
be grounded in the text and recognising that such readings will be
different. Presumably the ways in which students interrogate the text should
show the complexity of their response and the choices they deliberately make
to express their reading. Appropriateness suggests they make choices. For
example on Sunday School this week, a teacher talked about the importance of
students not just pursuing the flashbacks of the main character of the novel
to America but the lived in present of his dialogue with the American. Those
students who merely explore the flashbacks without relating it to present
time would not have such a complex reading and may just be repeating a
received reading instead of using all of their knowledge about the text to
tackle the question dynamically. I guess if I were marking - and I have
marked in the past - I would be looking for not only the capacity of the
student to have developed a complex reading of the text which is supported
by that text, but I would be looking at the fluency through which he or she
could express that meaning cogently, and succinctly using appropriate
metalanguage which is at the same time evocative of the language of the
novel. The very best answers use language so well. I have also marked
literature as well and in both cases originality and complexity of reading
matched by excellent fluency are the hallmarks of top answers. Why is the
basis of the text not in other levels? Well it should be but it is only in
those high answers that the response is controlled and the student is making
choices about appropriate strategies.



Cheers



Mary



From: english-
[mailto:english-] On Behalf Of
Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012 1:20 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Wondering if there's any other assessors on this thread who care to comment
on the descriptor in question... Personally, and professionally I might add,
I find this an interesting issue. If these descriptors hold any weight at
all in the assessment process then don't we have an obligation to understand
them; or if they are poorly written then at least identify their
shortcomings and deal with it...?



The key questions once again are: What is the basis of the text? For
instance, what is the basis of, say, Cat's Eye? And what is meant by an
appropriate strategy for dealing with it (ie the topic) and why is there no
need for a strategy (appropriate or otherwise) below the 9-10 range?



Thanks



Russell



From:

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:14 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Gail



Thanks for contributing to this thread.



Just to be clear, it's dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I'm referring to. I
suppose good, clear writing is what I'm concerned about here. Firstly, if
someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is
considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of
teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat's Eye by
Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and
why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate
or otherwise?



I don't have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just
thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and
syntax of this descriptor. Gail's point about students thinking they are
meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such
implications are referred to in the examination criteria.



Russell









From: Reynolds, Gail G

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities





Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go
off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text
itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a
discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in
London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may
think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not
addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the
Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a
substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria
are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a
process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue
altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a
process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as
such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor
will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may
receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the
stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when
compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low
discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



_____

From: english- [english-] on
behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...



I don't have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a
nagging feeling that the phrase " from the basis of the text" is redundant.
I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it's
referring to something else, I don't understand why it's there. Also your
point about "understanding the text in the wider world"... isn't this a C&P
feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that
it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...

I also wonder what is meant by "an appropriate strategy for dealing with it"
... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don't need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?



Thanks again,



Russell



From: Julie

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Cc: mailto:

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,



The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring'
and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite
sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of
the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much
further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the
best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.



It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses
the difference is more obvious.

Regards,

Julie Squires


On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi



I'm looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam
markers and wonder what people understand by the term... "Demonstrates an
understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity
from the basis of the text." I note that this expected quality is only
referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most
students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing
the point...?



http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf



Russell



From: Lorraine Paul

Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have
forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine


_____


From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I'm sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the
site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english-
[mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!


_____


Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing
course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers.
We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE
English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide
opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers;
participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access
virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who
are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to
build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count
towards professional development time and will, I think, be most
interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I
know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development
hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you
are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you
loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding
back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using
attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,
and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au -
FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the
Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au -
FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the
Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority


_____


_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English
VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English
VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

_____

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English
VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using
attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,
and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
Development.

_____

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English
VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

_____

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English
VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?
>
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf
>
> Russell
>
> From: Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
> Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
> Lorraine
>
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
>
>
>
> Hello Mary,
>
> Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
> Lorraine
>
> !
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators
>
> Hello Mary
>
>
>
> Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.
>
>
>
> Yours
>
> Douglas McClenaghan
>
> >>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>
>
> Dear VCE teachers
>
> I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Mary Mason
>
> Consultant to the Ultranet
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
>
>
> _______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



________________________________
From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

________________________________
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators



Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
________________________________

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

________________________________
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


is everybody sure that the 'low discrepancy rate'  is necessarily a
good thing... 

----- Original Message -----
From: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
To:"VCE English Teachers' Mailing List"
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:57:46 +0000
Subject:Re: [English] expected qualities

 

Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will
often go off into tangents separating their exploration of
the iissues from the text itself; so for example a _Year of
Wonders_  response might wander off into a discussion of the plague
in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which
is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London.  The student
themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria,
but they are not addressing the text.  The phrase which worries you
is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a
context which has a substantial link to the content of the text.
(Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper
but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat
duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)

 

You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance'
decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't
tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking.
An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate
scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the
degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater
strength in one area over another when compared one to the other.  It
sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate
(assessors disagreeing)

 

Gail

 
-------------------------
FROM: english-
[english-] on behalf of
[]
SENT: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
CC:
SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...   I don’t have an
issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging
feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is
redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the
text.  Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t
understand why it’s there.  Also your point about “understanding
the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than
a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with
the world of the text, not real world elements... I also wonder what
is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie
the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be?  Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?   Thanks
again,   Russell   FROM: Julie [1] SENT: Monday, July 09,
2012 8:50 PM TO: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List [2] CC:
mailto: [3] SUBJECT: Re: [English] expected
qualities   Hi Russell,   The key words in this description, for
me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'.  The thinking
associated with these words is quite sophisticated.  While we hope
that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually
clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The
basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best
response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.    It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in
student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards, Julie Squires
On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, wrote:

HI   I’M LOOKING AT THE 2011 EXPECTED QUALITIES (READING AND
RESPONDING) FOR EXAM MARKERS AND WONDER WHAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BY THE
TERM... “DEMONSTRATES AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE
TOPIC...EXPLORING ITS COMPLEXITY FROM THE BASIS OF THE TEXT.”  I
NOTE THAT THIS EXPECTED QUALITY IS ONLY REFERRED TO IN THE 8-10 MARK
RANGE.  ONE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT MOST STUDENTS WOULD USE THE TEXT
AS THE BASIS FOR THEIR RESPONSE; OR AM I MISSING THE POINT...?  
HTTP://WWW.VCAA.VIC.EDU.AU/VCE/STUDIES/ENGLISH/2008ENG-CRIT-DESCRIPTORS.PDF
[5]   RUSSELL   FROM: Lorraine Paul [6] SENT: Sunday, July
08, 2012 7:58 PM TO: [7] SUBJECT: Re:
[English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators  
Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you
have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine

-------------------------
From: [8]
To: [9]
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access
the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.

 

Mary

 

FROM: english- [10]
[mailto:english-] ON BEHALF OF Lorraine Paul
SENT: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
TO: [11]
SUBJECT: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

 

Hello Mary,

Is this open only to  State School Teachers ?
Lorraine !

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From: [12]
To: [13]
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary

 

Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.

 

Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on
designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State
School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for
teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent
materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask
questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with
other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual
discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools
,who are presently teaching  VCE, who would be willing to trial and
help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers.
Participation  will count towards professional development time and
will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are
welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to
pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on
my email: [15] if you are able to participate.
The trial will be  in Term 3 and will  involve you loggi! ng into
the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us
your comments.

 

Best wishes

 

Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [16] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [17] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [18] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [19] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [20] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [21] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [22] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [23] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [24] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au [25] - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au [26] - Victorian Association for the Teaching
of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html [27] -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

-------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of
English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed
are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Links:
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[2] mailto:
[3] mailto:
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Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




From: Reynolds, Gail G
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

From: Julie
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

Wondering if there�s any other assessors on this thread who care to comment on the descriptor in question... Personally, and professionally I might add, I find this an interesting issue. If these descriptors hold any weight at all in the assessment process then don�t we have an obligation to understand them; or if they are poorly written then at least identify their shortcomings and deal with it...?

The key questions once again are: What is the basis of the text? For instance, what is the basis of, say, Cat�s Eye? And what is meant by an appropriate strategy for dealing with it (ie the topic) and why is there no need for a strategy (appropriate or otherwise) below the 9-10 range?

Thanks

Russell

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Gail

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

Just to be clear, it�s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I�m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I�m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat�s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?

I don�t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail�s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.

Russell




Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities


Hello Julie and thanks for your response...

I don�t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase � from the basis of the text� is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it�s referring to something else, I don�t understand why it�s there. Also your point about �understanding the text in the wider world�... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...
I also wonder what is meant by �an appropriate strategy for dealing with it� ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don�t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

Russell

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM
Cc: mailto:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi Russell,

The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.

It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,
Julie Squires

On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:


Hi

I�m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... �Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.� I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf

Russell

From: Lorraine Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators


Lorraine - I�m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority


Hi - I am not an assessor now but given that there are multiple readings of
texts I guess that what this descriptor is saying is that any reading must
be grounded in the text and recognising that such readings will be
different. Presumably the ways in which students interrogate the text should
show the complexity of their response and the choices they deliberately make
to express their reading. Appropriateness suggests they make choices. For
example on Sunday School this week, a teacher talked about the importance of
students not just pursuing the flashbacks of the main character of the novel
to America but the lived in present of his dialogue with the American. Those
students who merely explore the flashbacks without relating it to present
time would not have such a complex reading and may just be repeating a
received reading instead of using all of their knowledge about the text to
tackle the question dynamically. I guess if I were marking - and I have
marked in the past - I would be looking for not only the capacity of the
student to have developed a complex reading of the text which is supported
by that text, but I would be looking at the fluency through which he or she
could express that meaning cogently, and succinctly using appropriate
metalanguage which is at the same time evocative of the language of the
novel. The very best answers use language so well. I have also marked
literature as well and in both cases originality and complexity of reading
matched by excellent fluency are the hallmarks of top answers. Why is the
basis of the text not in other levels? Well it should be but it is only in
those high answers that the response is controlled and the student is making
choices about appropriate strategies.



Cheers



Mary



From: english-
[mailto:english-] On Behalf Of
Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012 1:20 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Wondering if there's any other assessors on this thread who care to comment
on the descriptor in question... Personally, and professionally I might add,
I find this an interesting issue. If these descriptors hold any weight at
all in the assessment process then don't we have an obligation to understand
them; or if they are poorly written then at least identify their
shortcomings and deal with it...?



The key questions once again are: What is the basis of the text? For
instance, what is the basis of, say, Cat's Eye? And what is meant by an
appropriate strategy for dealing with it (ie the topic) and why is there no
need for a strategy (appropriate or otherwise) below the 9-10 range?



Thanks



Russell



From:

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:14 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Gail



Thanks for contributing to this thread.



Just to be clear, it's dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I'm referring to. I
suppose good, clear writing is what I'm concerned about here. Firstly, if
someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is
considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of
teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat's Eye by
Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and
why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate
or otherwise?



I don't have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just
thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and
syntax of this descriptor. Gail's point about students thinking they are
meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such
implications are referred to in the examination criteria.



Russell









From: Reynolds, Gail G

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities





Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go
off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text
itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a
discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in
London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an
isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may
think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not
addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the
Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a
substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria
are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a
process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue
altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a
process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as
such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor
will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may
receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the
stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when
compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low
discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail



_____

From: english- [english-] on
behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...



I don't have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a
nagging feeling that the phrase " from the basis of the text" is redundant.
I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it's
referring to something else, I don't understand why it's there. Also your
point about "understanding the text in the wider world"... isn't this a C&P
feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that
it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...

I also wonder what is meant by "an appropriate strategy for dealing with it"
... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don't need a strategy, appropriate
or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate
strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?



Thanks again,



Russell



From: Julie

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Cc: mailto:

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,



The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring'
and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite
sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of
the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much
further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the
best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider
world.



It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses
the difference is more obvious.

Regards,

Julie Squires


On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi



I'm looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam
markers and wonder what people understand by the term... "Demonstrates an
understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity
from the basis of the text." I note that this expected quality is only
referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most
students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing
the point...?



http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf



Russell



From: Lorraine Paul

Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have
forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine


_____


From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I'm sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the
site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english-
[mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!


_____


Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing
course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers.
We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE
English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide
opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers;
participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access
virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful
that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT
projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who
are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to
build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count
towards professional development time and will, I think, be most
interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I
know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development
hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you
are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you
loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding
back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using
attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,
and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
Development.

_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au -
FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the
Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment ! Authority


_______________________________________________ http://www.edulists.com.au -
FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
kindly supported by http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the
Teaching of English VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority


_____


_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vate.org.au - Victorian Association for the Teaching of English
VATE and
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/index.html - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority

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Hi Mary; and thanks for the response...

I think what you’ve written actually highlights one of the aspects of the issue: you write that you’re guessing twice and presuming once in your interpretation of this, I would argue, poorly written descriptor.

If I understand you correctly you’re suggesting that the idea of multiple readings constitute the basis of the text. As I understand it a basis is one thing, so I’m not sure if this is possible.

You go on to argue that ‘appropriateness’ suggests choices, but the descriptor specifically mention an appropriate strategy, not that students would put up one strategy, and then another, then demonstrate that they’ve chosen one. Anyway, what I want know is what is such an appropriate strategy and, by definition, what is an inappropriate one. Two responses so for have tried to argue that relevance her might be the discriminating element here. Gail suggested that students can wonder off topic. Her example was the Years of Wonders one where students might talk in general terms about the plague in London and forget the setting of the text being Eyam. This hardly seems like an issue to do with a highly graded paper. The American novel containing flashbacks seems like students need to deal with a fairly clear structural element within the text: time shifts. I haven’t read it myself so I cant comment on the complexity of it... but the issue is, again, not one of complexity, but of the two elements an appropriate strategy in dealing with the topic and what is the basis of the text. As far as I can see no clear explanation has been arrived at.

Thanks

Russell

From: Mary Mason
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:36 PM
To: 'VCE English Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hi - I am not an assessor now but given that there are multiple readings of texts I guess that what this descriptor is saying is that any reading must be grounded in the text and recognising that such readings will be different. Presumably the ways in which students interrogate the text should show the complexity of their response and the choices they deliberately make to express their reading. Appropriateness suggests they make choices. For example on Sunday School this week, a teacher talked about the importance of students not just pursuing the flashbacks of the main character of the novel to America but the lived in present of his dialogue with the American. Those students who merely explore the flashbacks without relating it to present time would not have such a complex reading and may just be repeating a received reading instead of using all of their knowledge about the text to tackle the question dynamically. I guess if I were marking – and I have marked in the past – I would be looking for not only the capacity of the student to have developed a complex reading of the text which is supported by that text, but I would be looking at the fluency through which he or she could express that meaning cogently, and succinctly using appropriate metalanguage which is at the same time evocative of the language of the novel. The very best answers use language so well. I have also marked literature as well and in both cases originality and complexity of reading matched by excellent fluency are the hallmarks of top answers. Why is the basis of the text not in other levels? Well it should be but it is only in those high answers that the response is controlled and the student is making choices about appropriate strategies.



Cheers



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of
Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012 1:20 PM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Wondering if there’s any other assessors on this thread who care to comment on the descriptor in question... Personally, and professionally I might add, I find this an interesting issue. If these descriptors hold any weight at all in the assessment process then don’t we have an obligation to understand them; or if they are poorly written then at least identify their shortcomings and deal with it...?



The key questions once again are: What is the basis of the text? For instance, what is the basis of, say, Cat’s Eye? And what is meant by an appropriate strategy for dealing with it (ie the topic) and why is there no need for a strategy (appropriate or otherwise) below the 9-10 range?



Thanks



Russell



From:

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:14 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Gail



Thanks for contributing to this thread.



Just to be clear, it’s dot point 2 in the 8-10 range I’m referring to. I suppose good, clear writing is what I’m concerned about here. Firstly, if someone could explain to me what the basis of the text is, why it is considered so important then maybe we could then discuss profitable ways of teaching to it. For instance, what is the basis of the text Cat’s Eye by Margaret Atwood? Secondly, what is meant by an appropriate strategy and why aren't students below the 9-10 range considered to need one, appropriate or otherwise?



I don’t have any anxieties about the discrepancy rates or lack thereof, just thinking that we need to know exactly what is going on in the language and syntax of this descriptor. Gail’s point about students thinking they are meeting the [wider] implications surely become an issue when no such implications are referred to in the examination criteria.



Russell









From: Reynolds, Gail G

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:57 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities





Hi Russell,

I think the point of the phrase is that the weaker students will often go off into tangents separating their exploration of the iissues from the text itself; so for example a Year of Wonders response might wander off into a discussion of the plague in general terms, say, how many were killed in London, which is irrelevant to the text which is set (apparently) in Eyam an isolated small village well away from London. The student themselves may think they are meeting the wider implications criteria, but they are not addressing the text. The phrase which worries you is a reminder to the Assessors that these discussions need to be in a context which has a substantial link to the content of the text. (Remember that these criteria are not the ones given on the exam paper but intended for the assessors -- a process I think is somewhat duplicitous ... but that is another issue altogether)



You should also consider that the assessors make 'on balance' decisions in a process which is holistic marking, ie markers don't tick off criteria as such, but use them as a guide for their marking. An experienced assessor will use these criteria to differentiate scripts, but two responses may receive the same marks although the degree to which they meet each of the stated criteria may show greater strength in one area over another when compared one to the other. It sounds complex, but English has a very low discrepancy rate (assessors disagreeing)



Gail




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: english- [english-] on behalf of []
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:13 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities

Hello Julie and thanks for your response...



I don’t have an issue with the key words you identify... though I have a nagging feeling that the phrase “ from the basis of the text” is redundant. I mean the exam topic itself invariably refers to the text. Unless it’s referring to something else, I don’t understand why it’s there. Also your point about “understanding the text in the wider world”... isn't this a C&P feature rather than a R&R one? My understanding of an R&R response is that it deals with the world of the text, not real world elements...

I also wonder what is meant by “an appropriate strategy for dealing with it” ... ie the topic; and why marks below 8 don’t need a strategy, appropriate or otherwise. From your point of view what would such an appropriate strategy be? Perhaps others also have thoughts on this?



Thanks again,



Russell



From: Julie

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:50 PM

To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List

Cc: mailto:

Subject: Re: [English] expected qualities



Hi Russell,



The key words in this description, for me, are: 'implications', 'exploring' and 'complexity'. The thinking associated with these words is quite sophisticated. While we hope that all students respond 'from the basis of the text' it is usually clear that the best responses take the ideas so much further. The basic response 'describes' the ideas in the topic while the best response moves way beyond this and understands the text in the wider world.



It is hard to explain but when you see the difference in student responses the difference is more obvious.

Regards,

Julie Squires


On 09/07/2012, at 12:42 PM, <> wrote:

Hi



I’m looking at the 2011 Expected Qualities (Reading and Responding) for exam markers and wonder what people understand by the term... “Demonstrates an understanding of the implications of the topic...exploring its complexity from the basis of the text.” I note that this expected quality is only referred to in the 8-10 mark range. One would like to think that most students would use the text as the basis for their response; or am I missing the point...?



http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/english/2008eng-crit-descriptors.pdf



Russell



From: Lorraine Paul

Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Thanks Mary. I teach in an independent school. It's nice when you have forums like this. All the best!
Lorraine


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
To:
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Lorraine - I’m sorry. You need to have an edumail address to access the site. You can be a crt teacher or an employee in a state school.



Mary



From: english- [mailto:english-] On Behalf Of Lorraine Paul
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012 11:15 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators




Hello Mary,

Is this open only to State School Teachers ?
Lorraine

!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:58:49 +1000
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [English] VCE English Teachers and Coordinators

Hello Mary



Yes, I am certainly interested in this. Sign me up.



Yours

Douglas McClenaghan

>>> Mary Mason<> 7/06/2012 11:13 AM >>>

Dear VCE teachers

I am working with a group for the Department of Education on designing course materials for Years 11 and 12 VCE English for State School Teachers. We are also working on a site on! the Ultranet for teachers new to VCE English. This site will provide excellent materials for teachers; provide opportunities for them to ask questions of experienced VCE teachers; participate in a forum with other teachers; and opportunities to access virtual discussions/lectures on aspects of the course. We are also hopeful that there could be a forum on it for collaborative research for VIT projects. We would like to have about 30 teachers from state schools ,who are presently teaching VCE, who would be willing to trial and help us to build the site so it will be helpful for teachers. Participation will count towards professional development time and will, I think, be most interesting. If you are a CRT teacher you are welcome to join as well. I know it is diffi! cult sometimes for you to pick up professional development hours. Please contact me directly on my email: if you are able to participate. The trial will be in Term 3 and will involve you loggi! ng into the site, participating in some of the forums, and feeding back to us your comments.



Best wishes



Mary Mason

Consultant to the Ultranet


Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact! us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check t hem for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

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http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
VCE English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
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