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I realize this has been discussed, but I did not think I was going to be
interested in a DNP program. If those of you who have completed or are in
an online DNP program are willing to share your thoughts, positive or
negative, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you
Louise Rosales

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. Hi all,
I just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP programs.
I understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
I think money money money!!!!
So we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
Please help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any program needs to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated affiliates.
Margie
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this post. Are
you saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying that
all nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also saying
that all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital?? I'm
hoping you will expand on these statements and offer further explanation.

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On Behalf
Of
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
To:
Subject: [NPInfo] DNP programs

Hi all,
I just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP programs.
I understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
I think money money money!!!!
So we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
Please help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any program
needs to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated affiliates.
Margie
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. Good morning,
I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP programs. They continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us lowly master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will not be able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only a few schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have spoken with graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find clinical sites.
I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had to take more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters programs.
Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching them to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see any additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several DNP students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and I have not received any answers.
Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will expands ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other clinical opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private office IMHO
\Do not dummy down our profession.Margie

-----Original Message-----
From: Dena Galler <>
To: 'NP Info' <>
Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs

I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this post. Are
ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying that
ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also saying
hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital?? I'm
oping you will expand on these statements and offer further explanation.
-----Original Message-----
rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On Behalf
f
ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
o:
ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs

i all,
just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP programs.
understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
think money money money!!!!
o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any program
eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated affiliates.
argie
______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. She is being tongue in cheek because of issues in Florida. Later post explains this. Somewhat agree with over proliferation of both MSN programs and push for DNP (still want it). Inexperienced poorly trained providers are not helping the shortage of providers. In my area of PA there are at least 6 competing programs

Arlene J
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. It doesn't sound tongue in cheek to me, but the expression "tongue in cheek" to me, means facetious.

I agree with Margie that NPs who are getting the DNP for their first professional degree are not graduating with any knowledge or skills superior to those of us who have Masters despite the natural public perception that a doctorate must be better than a Masters. From comments on this list it seems as though their supervised learning experiences may fall anywhere on the continuum from excellent to mediocre. And in any clinical profession, there's no way to avoid the novice-to-expert pathway.

Stephanie Walker, FNP

On Mar 16, 2011, at 8:21 AM, wrote:

> She is being tongue in cheek because of issues in Florida. Later post explains this. Somewhat agree with over proliferation of both MSN programs and push for DNP (still want it). Inexperienced poorly trained providers are not helping the shortage of providers. In my area of PA there are at least 6 competing programs
>
> Arlene J
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. Margie,
Whoa � now, I don�t know anything about the DNP programs in Florida, but there seems to be a misunderstanding of the goal of the DNP. In early discussions (about 7 years ago now would be my guess) that looked objectively at NP education, the thought was that current NP programs had enough credits to be considered doctoral level, so why not grant the degree? What the DNP adds is not additional clinical expertise, but a more global view of practice improvement. Instead of doing research, as most doctoral degrees require, the DNP focuses on evaluating research, looking at best evidence, implementing that in a practice setting, and then evaluating the results. The DNP is not about making a clinician superior to the masters� prepared one, but giving credit for courses taken comparable to doctoral degrees in other fields.

After 30+ years as an NP, I don�t see master�s prepared NPs having anything to worry about. Their value will not diminish, nor do I anticipate they will need a DNP to continue to practice. I really see NP�s prepared at both levels working together, but with a different focus to their practice. Remember, that there have been NP�s out there with PhD�s for a long time.

Sally

On Mar 16, 2011, at 6:19 AM, wrote:

>
> Good morning,
> I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP programs. They continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us lowly master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will not be able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
> Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only a few schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have spoken with graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find clinical sites.
> I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had to take more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters programs.
> Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching them to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see any additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several DNP students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and I have not received any answers.
> Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will expands ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other clinical opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private office IMHO
> \Do not dummy down our profession.Margie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dena Galler <>
> To: 'NP Info' <>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>
>
> I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this post. Are
> ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying that
> ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also saying
> hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital?? I'm
> oping you will expand on these statements and offer further explanation.
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On Behalf
> f
> ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
> o:
> ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>
> i all,
> just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP programs.
> understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
> think money money money!!!!
> o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
> lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any program
> eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated affiliates.
> argie
> ______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. Sally,
What a great response, thank you! Why on earth would we want diminish the
value of the MS. When the standard of NP education changed from the BS to
the MS I don't recall any major transition problems. In fact, the NPs with
BS prep were my preceptors 25 years ago. My MS/FNP program was 12 months
long in the mid 80s. Most MS programs are now 2 years, with heavy credit
loads. We should embrace the DNP and help them be even better prepared NPs.
Work towards providing constructive feedback to the DNP programs. I believe
the more successful DNP NP programs become the more successful NPs will be.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dr. Sally Kennedy <>wrote:

> Margie,
> Whoa � now, I don�t know anything about the DNP programs in Florida, but
> there seems to be a misunderstanding of the goal of the DNP. In early
> discussions (about 7 years ago now would be my guess) that looked
> objectively at NP education, the thought was that current NP programs had
> enough credits to be considered doctoral level, so why not grant the degree?
> What the DNP adds is not additional clinical expertise, but a more global
> view of practice improvement. Instead of doing research, as most doctoral
> degrees require, the DNP focuses on evaluating research, looking at best
> evidence, implementing that in a practice setting, and then evaluating the
> results. The DNP is not about making a clinician superior to the masters�
> prepared one, but giving credit for courses taken comparable to doctoral
> degrees in other fields.
>
> After 30+ years as an NP, I don�t see master�s prepared NPs having anything
> to worry about. Their value will not diminish, nor do I anticipate they will
> need a DNP to continue to practice. I really see NP�s prepared at both
> levels working together, but with a different focus to their practice.
> Remember, that there have been NP�s out there with PhD�s for a long time.
>
> Sally
>
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2011, at 6:19 AM, wrote:
>
> >
> > Good morning,
> > I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP programs. They
> continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us lowly
> master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will not be
> able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
> > Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only a few
> schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have spoken with
> graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find
> clinical sites.
> > I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the
> graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP
> programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had to take
> more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters programs.
> > Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching them
> to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see any
> additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several DNP
> students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and I have
> not received any answers.
> > Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will expands
> ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other clinical
> opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private office
> IMHO
> > \Do not dummy down our profession.Margie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dena Galler <>
> > To: 'NP Info' <>
> > Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
> > Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this post. Are
> > ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying that
> > ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also saying
> > hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital?? I'm
> > oping you will expand on these statements and offer further explanation.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On
> Behalf
> > f
> > ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
> > o:
> > ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs
> >
> > i all,
> > just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP programs.
> > understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
> > think money money money!!!!
> > o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
> > lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any program
> > eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated affiliates.
> > argie
> > ______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. You folks are not getting it and your language is a bit too condescending. The issue is not whether "we want to diminish the value of the MS." That is just so much wishful thinking. Creating an inflated degree for a novice practitioner DOES devalue the MS. There are no two ways about it.

It isn't even fair to those of us with a Masters if a NP with experience gets a DNP since those with a Masters automatically are downgraded by comparison. It's a shame, since it's performance, and not the letters after a person's name, that separates the sheep from the goats.

And it doesn't matter what nursing academia thinks; it's the public perception. I have already explained to one puzzled patient that I actually am more qualified by knowledge and experience than a newly graduated NP with a DNP and found the concept is clearly beyond the comprehension of the average person. That includes the average employer interviewing NPs for positions.

Nothing personal toward the two people who posted, this issue really ticks me off. The heavy credit loads are not in the clinical hours, so of what value are they to a clinician? You can talk like a professor--but can you make a correct diagnosis?

Stephanie Walker, FNP

On Mar 16, 2011, at 10:21 PM, FNP wrote:

> Sally,
> What a great response, thank you! Why on earth would we want diminish the
> value of the MS. When the standard of NP education changed from the BS to
> the MS I don't recall any major transition problems. In fact, the NPs with
> BS prep were my preceptors 25 years ago. My MS/FNP program was 12 months
> long in the mid 80s. Most MS programs are now 2 years, with heavy credit
> loads. We should embrace the DNP and help them be even better prepared NPs.
> Work towards providing constructive feedback to the DNP programs. I believe
> the more successful DNP NP programs become the more successful NPs will be.
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dr. Sally Kennedy <>wrote:
>
>> Margie,
>> Whoa � now, I don�t know anything about the DNP programs in Florida, but
>> there seems to be a misunderstanding of the goal of the DNP. In early
>> discussions (about 7 years ago now would be my guess) that looked
>> objectively at NP education, the thought was that current NP programs had
>> enough credits to be considered doctoral level, so why not grant the degree?
>> What the DNP adds is not additional clinical expertise, but a more global
>> view of practice improvement. Instead of doing research, as most doctoral
>> degrees require, the DNP focuses on evaluating research, looking at best
>> evidence, implementing that in a practice setting, and then evaluating the
>> results. The DNP is not about making a clinician superior to the masters�
>> prepared one, but giving credit for courses taken comparable to doctoral
>> degrees in other fields.
>>
>> After 30+ years as an NP, I don�t see master�s prepared NPs having anything
>> to worry about. Their value will not diminish, nor do I anticipate they will
>> need a DNP to continue to practice. I really see NP�s prepared at both
>> levels working together, but with a different focus to their practice.
>> Remember, that there have been NP�s out there with PhD�s for a long time.
>>
>> Sally
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 6:19 AM, wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>> I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP programs. They
>> continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us lowly
>> master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will not be
>> able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
>>> Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only a few
>> schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have spoken with
>> graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find
>> clinical sites.
>>> I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the
>> graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP
>> programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had to take
>> more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters programs.
>>> Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching them
>> to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see any
>> additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several DNP
>> students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and I have
>> not received any answers.
>>> Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will expands
>> ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other clinical
>> opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private office
>> IMHO
>>> \Do not dummy down our profession.Margie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dena Galler <>
>>> To: 'NP Info' <>
>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this post. Are
>>> ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying that
>>> ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also saying
>>> hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital?? I'm
>>> oping you will expand on these statements and offer further explanation.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On
>> Behalf
>>> f
>>> ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
>>> o:
>>> ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>
>>> i all,
>>> just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP programs.
>>> understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
>>> think money money money!!!!
>>> o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
>>> lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any program
>>> eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated affiliates.
>>> argie
>>> ______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. Stephanie--

Great post--wish I'd read it before I posted mine, since we are saying
many of the same things. And since I practice in a "rural underserved
area" (remember--the places NP's were supposed to provide the most
benefit), returning to school isn't an option for me, as the least
expensive online program is way beyond reasonable. To say DNP programs
haven't devalued Master's NP's is a joke.

Lisa

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Stephanie Walker wrote:

> You folks are not getting it and your language is a bit too
> condescending. The issue is not whether "we want to diminish the value
> of the MS." That is just so much wishful thinking. Creating an
> inflated degree for a novice practitioner DOES devalue the MS. There
> are no two ways about it.
> It isn't even fair to those of us with a Masters if a NP with
> experience gets a DNP since those with a Masters automatically are
> downgraded by comparison. It's a shame, since it's performance, and
> not the letters after a person's name, that separates the sheep from
> the goats.
>
> And it doesn't matter what nursing academia thinks; it's the public
> perception. I have already explained to one puzzled patient that I
> actually am more qualified by knowledge and experience than a newly
> graduated NP with a DNP and found the concept is clearly beyond the
> comprehension of the average person. That includes the average
> employer interviewing NPs for positions.
> Nothing personal toward the two people who posted, this issue really
> ticks me off. The heavy credit loads are not in the clinical hours, so
> of what value are they to a clinician? You can talk like a
> professor--but can you make a correct diagnosis?
>
> Stephanie Walker, FNP
>
> On Mar 16, 2011, at 10:21 PM, FNP wrote:
>
>> Sally,
>> What a great response, thank you! Why on earth would we want diminish
>> the
>> value of the MS. When the standard of NP education changed from the
>> BS to
>> the MS I don't recall any major transition problems. In fact, the NPs
>> with
>> BS prep were my preceptors 25 years ago. My MS/FNP program was 12
>> months
>> long in the mid 80s. Most MS programs are now 2 years, with heavy
>> credit
>> loads. We should embrace the DNP and help them be even better
>> prepared NPs.
>> Work towards providing constructive feedback to the DNP programs. I
>> believe
>> the more successful DNP NP programs become the more successful NPs
>> will be.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dr. Sally Kennedy
>> <>wrote:
>>
>>> Margie,
>>> Whoa – now, I don’t know anything about the DNP programs in Florida,
>>> but
>>> there seems to be a misunderstanding of the goal of the DNP. In
>>> early
>>> discussions (about 7 years ago now would be my guess) that looked
>>> objectively at NP education, the thought was that current NP
>>> programs had
>>> enough credits to be considered doctoral level, so why not grant the
>>> degree?
>>> What the DNP adds is not additional clinical expertise, but a more
>>> global
>>> view of practice improvement. Instead of doing research, as most
>>> doctoral
>>> degrees require, the DNP focuses on evaluating research, looking at
>>> best
>>> evidence, implementing that in a practice setting, and then
>>> evaluating the
>>> results. The DNP is not about making a clinician superior to the
>>> masters’
>>> prepared one, but giving credit for courses taken comparable to
>>> doctoral
>>> degrees in other fields.
>>>
>>> After 30+ years as an NP, I don’t see master’s prepared NPs having
>>> anything
>>> to worry about. Their value will not diminish, nor do I anticipate
>>> they will
>>> need a DNP to continue to practice. I really see NP’s prepared at
>>> both
>>> levels working together, but with a different focus to their
>>> practice.
>>> Remember, that there have been NP’s out there with PhD’s for a long
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Sally
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 6:19 AM, wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning,
>>>> I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP
>>>> programs. They
>>> continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us
>>> lowly
>>> master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will
>>> not be
>>> able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
>>>> Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only
>>>> a few
>>> schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have
>>> spoken with
>>> graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find
>>> clinical sites.
>>>> I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the
>>> graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP
>>> programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had
>>> to take
>>> more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters
>>> programs.
>>>> Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching
>>>> them
>>> to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see
>>> any
>>> additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several
>>> DNP
>>> students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and
>>> I have
>>> not received any answers.
>>>> Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will
>>>> expands
>>> ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other
>>> clinical
>>> opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private
>>> office
>>> IMHO
>>>> \Do not dummy down our profession.Margie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dena Galler <>
>>>> To: 'NP Info' <>
>>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this
>>>> post. Are
>>>> ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you
>>>> saying that
>>>> ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also
>>>> saying
>>>> hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching
>>>> hospital?? I'm
>>>> oping you will expand on these statements and offer further
>>>> explanation.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On
>>> Behalf
>>>> f
>>>> ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
>>>> o:
>>>> ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>>
>>>> i all,
>>>> just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP
>>>> programs.
>>>> understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
>>>> think money money money!!!!
>>>> o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
>>>> lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any
>>>> program
>>>> eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated
>>>> affiliates.
>>>> argie
>>>> ______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. Remember that BSNs were MANDATED eventually to pick up the Master's to
continue to practice. Right now, we Master's prepared folks are being
told that won't happen. Right. Just like before, insurance companies
will start to change reimbursement to only pay DNP's and then the
mandating will start. And if employers don't pick up the tab for the
programs, a whole lot of us will be leaving the field. And I suppose
that's okay with the DNP programs, because they're cranking the students
through anyway...

Lisa

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:21 PM, FNP wrote:

> Sally,
> What a great response, thank you! Why on earth would we want diminish
> the
> value of the MS. When the standard of NP education changed from the BS
> to
> the MS I don't recall any major transition problems. In fact, the NPs
> with
> BS prep were my preceptors 25 years ago. My MS/FNP program was 12
> months
> long in the mid 80s. Most MS programs are now 2 years, with heavy
> credit
> loads. We should embrace the DNP and help them be even better prepared
> NPs.
> Work towards providing constructive feedback to the DNP programs. I
> believe
> the more successful DNP NP programs become the more successful NPs
> will be.
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dr. Sally Kennedy
> <>wrote:
>
>> Margie,
>> Whoa – now, I don’t know anything about the DNP programs in Florida,
>> but
>> there seems to be a misunderstanding of the goal of the DNP. In
>> early
>> discussions (about 7 years ago now would be my guess) that looked
>> objectively at NP education, the thought was that current NP programs
>> had
>> enough credits to be considered doctoral level, so why not grant the
>> degree?
>> What the DNP adds is not additional clinical expertise, but a more
>> global
>> view of practice improvement. Instead of doing research, as most
>> doctoral
>> degrees require, the DNP focuses on evaluating research, looking at
>> best
>> evidence, implementing that in a practice setting, and then
>> evaluating the
>> results. The DNP is not about making a clinician superior to the
>> masters’
>> prepared one, but giving credit for courses taken comparable to
>> doctoral
>> degrees in other fields.
>>
>> After 30+ years as an NP, I don’t see master’s prepared NPs having
>> anything
>> to worry about. Their value will not diminish, nor do I anticipate
>> they will
>> need a DNP to continue to practice. I really see NP’s prepared at
>> both
>> levels working together, but with a different focus to their
>> practice.
>> Remember, that there have been NP’s out there with PhD’s for a long
>> time.
>>
>> Sally
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 6:19 AM, wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>> I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP programs.
>>> They
>> continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us
>> lowly
>> master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will
>> not be
>> able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
>>> Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only
>>> a few
>> schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have spoken
>> with
>> graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find
>> clinical sites.
>>> I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the
>> graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP
>> programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had to
>> take
>> more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters
>> programs.
>>> Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching
>>> them
>> to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see
>> any
>> additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several DNP
>> students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and
>> I have
>> not received any answers.
>>> Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will
>>> expands
>> ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other
>> clinical
>> opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private
>> office
>> IMHO
>>> \Do not dummy down our profession.Margie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dena Galler <>
>>> To: 'NP Info' <>
>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this
>>> post. Are
>>> ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying
>>> that
>>> ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also
>>> saying
>>> hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital??
>>> I'm
>>> oping you will expand on these statements and offer further
>>> explanation.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On
>> Behalf
>>> f
>>> ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
>>> o:
>>> ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>
>>> i all,
>>> just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP
>>> programs.
>>> understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
>>> think money money money!!!!
>>> o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
>>> lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any
>>> program
>>> eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated
>>> affiliates.
>>> argie
>>> ______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe. I wrote the same thing several years ago and the reimbursement issues and
staying marketable after the age of 50, were the primary reasons I went back
for my DNP-- despite not believing in the degree from the very beginning.
Whereas I still don't believe in it, I can sit back now and know that no
snot-nose inexperienced 26 yr, old fresh from a 4 yr BSN and a 4 yr DNP
program, will ever get hired over me solely based on the fact she has a
doctorate degree and I don't or because Medicare will reimburse her and not
me for the work we do. I firmly believe that the DNP will someday be needed
for reimbursement based on the past history with BSN/certificate vs MSN NPs
I already lived through. Thank goodness when I went to my NP program, I had
the foresight to go for the MSN and was therefore safe later on.
Unfortunately, I just have a strong feeling that the same thing is going to
happen with the MSN vs DNP for reimbursement. As for those of us over the
age of 50 not seeing a return on our investment with the DNP, I think job
security in this economic climate is the best return I could possibly have
and, if the DNP helps, then so be it!
Dena Galler

-----Original Message-----
From: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On Behalf
Of
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:20 AM
To: NP Info
Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs

Remember that BSNs were MANDATED eventually to pick up the Master's to
continue to practice. Right now, we Master's prepared folks are being told
that won't happen. Right. Just like before, insurance companies will start
to change reimbursement to only pay DNP's and then the mandating will start.
And if employers don't pick up the tab for the programs, a whole lot of us
will be leaving the field. And I suppose that's okay with the DNP programs,
because they're cranking the students through anyway...

Lisa

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:21 PM, FNP wrote:

> Sally,
> What a great response, thank you! Why on earth would we want diminish
> the value of the MS. When the standard of NP education changed from
> the BS to the MS I don't recall any major transition problems. In
> fact, the NPs with BS prep were my preceptors 25 years ago. My MS/FNP
> program was 12 months long in the mid 80s. Most MS programs are now 2
> years, with heavy credit loads. We should embrace the DNP and help
> them be even better prepared NPs.
> Work towards providing constructive feedback to the DNP programs. I
> believe the more successful DNP NP programs become the more successful
> NPs will be.
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dr. Sally Kennedy
> <>wrote:
>
>> Margie,
>> Whoa - now, I don't know anything about the DNP programs in Florida,
>> but there seems to be a misunderstanding of the goal of the DNP. In
>> early discussions (about 7 years ago now would be my guess) that
>> looked objectively at NP education, the thought was that current NP
>> programs had enough credits to be considered doctoral level, so why
>> not grant the degree?
>> What the DNP adds is not additional clinical expertise, but a more
>> global view of practice improvement. Instead of doing research, as
>> most doctoral degrees require, the DNP focuses on evaluating
>> research, looking at best evidence, implementing that in a practice
>> setting, and then evaluating the results. The DNP is not about making
>> a clinician superior to the masters'
>> prepared one, but giving credit for courses taken comparable to
>> doctoral degrees in other fields.
>>
>> After 30+ years as an NP, I don't see master's prepared NPs having
>> anything to worry about. Their value will not diminish, nor do I
>> anticipate they will need a DNP to continue to practice. I really see
>> NP's prepared at both levels working together, but with a different
>> focus to their practice.
>> Remember, that there have been NP's out there with PhD's for a long
>> time.
>>
>> Sally
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 6:19 AM, wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>> I am saying I am more than a little irritated with the DNP programs.
>>> They
>> continue ( in Florida) to make incorrect statements concerning us
>> lowly
>> master prepared NP's. I have been told several times , that I will
>> not be
>> able to practice if I do not obtain a DNP.
>>> Yes some of the programs are substandard in Florida. There are only
>>> a few
>> schools that I would hire graduates from . One example, I have spoken
>> with
>> graduates , whom have never perfomed a pelvic exam! They cannot find
>> clinical sites.
>>> I went to a conference in Arizona and the PHD explained that the
>> graduates of Masters programs in the 80's were equivalent to the DNP
>> programs , at the present time. As a graduate, in the 80's, I had to
>> take
>> more credits and clinical hours, than the newly graduated Masters
>> programs.
>>> Now I have been told by DNP students that their program is teaching
>>> them
>> to be a better NP. How?? I reviewed several programs , I do not see
>> any
>> additional or specialized clinical training. I have asked several DNP
>> students what they are obtaining that will expand their practice and
>> I have
>> not received any answers.
>>> Yes I think that teaching hospitals offer experiences that will
>>> expands
>> ones knowledge base, by having up to date research and many other
>> clinical
>> opportunities that , one would not obtain from the local , private
>> office
>> IMHO
>>> \Do not dummy down our profession.Margie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dena Galler <>
>>> To: 'NP Info' <>
>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry-- guess I'm not understanding the meaning behind this
>>> post. Are
>>> ou saying there should be no DNP programs in Florida? Are you saying
>>> that
>>> ll nursing education is substandard in Florida? And you are also
>>> saying
>>> hat all DNP programs should be affiliated with a teaching hospital??
>>> I'm
>>> oping you will expand on these statements and offer further
>>> explanation.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> rom: npinfo- [mailto:npinfo-] On
>> Behalf
>>> f
>>> ent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:23 PM
>>> o:
>>> ubject: [NPInfo] DNP programs
>>>
>>> i all,
>>> just read that , Florida, Mass and Penn , have more than 6 DNP
>>> programs.
>>> understand Pa, and Mass, but FLORIDA,?????
>>> think money money money!!!!
>>> o we are cranking , out more poorly prepared graduates in florida??
>>> lease help our profession, lets dummy it down more. Part of any
>>> program
>>> eeds to be hours in a TEACHING hospital,and its associated
>>> affiliates.
>>> argie
>>> ______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the NPInfo mailing list. Go to http://lists.nurse.net/mailman/listinfo/npinfo to subscribe.

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