I have to disagree. Have you tried working one of the FM birds using a 2 watt ht and a whip antenna ? The FM birds are something I can work while traveling. Have been able to find a SSB setup that is compact enough to carry on a plane.

Look at this from an emergency perspective. If you only had an ht and couldnt access a repeater, you woul at least have a chance to get help on a satellite pass.

Ron
Ka4kyi

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 6, 2011, at 1:15 AM, Dave Guimont <> wrote:

>
> I've worked every ham satellite that has been launched since I got on
> Oscar 7, cw, most of my gear at that time home brew in 1980.
>
> For the life of me I cannot see any difference in pushing a button on
> an FM bird than operating a cell phone, except that it is a 2 user
> operation and the time available is limited...
>
> Waste of good AMSAT funds......skill level 1, on a 1 to 10 basis...
>
>
>
> 73, Dave, WB6LLO
>
>
> Disagree: I learn....
>
> Pulling for P3E...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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Dave,

I'm not about to convert you to the FM satellites, you were very fortunate
to operate during the halcyon period for amateur satellites. However, we
want to keep amateur satellites in space, and we must deal with the current
economic situation. It is a thrill for me to teach someone how to operate
thru an FM satellite with an HT in their yard and experience that excitement
thru them.

Dave, I can understand your position on how easy it is for you to operate an
FM satellite, it may be that you have an Oscar station which would make it
"boring" and too easy for you.

Here is a challenge, Tim Lilley, N3TL earned the Oscar Satellite
Communications award using only 50 mW and a hand held antenna for all his
contacts, give it a try and report back how "easy" that is to accomplish.

73's Pete
WB2OQQ
www.massapequanyweather.com

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You can't get a VUCC or WAS award for cell phone calls.

73s John AA5JG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Guimont" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 6:15 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM satellites


>
> I've worked every ham satellite that has been launched since I got on
> Oscar 7, cw, most of my gear at that time home brew in 1980.
>
> For the life of me I cannot see any difference in pushing a button on
> an FM bird than operating a cell phone, except that it is a 2 user
> operation and the time available is limited...
>
> Waste of good AMSAT funds......skill level 1, on a 1 to 10 basis...
>
>
>
> 73, Dave, WB6LLO
>
>
> Disagree: I learn....
>
> Pulling for P3E...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

Hi Ron!

> I have to disagree. Have you tried working one of the FM birds using a 2
> watt ht and a whip antenna ?

Unfortunately, the comments like "I cannot see any difference in pushing
a button on an FM bird than operating a cell phone" (from WB6LLO's
post in this thread) show up from time to time. If FM satellites were that
simple to operate, then everyone who attempted to make an FM satellite
QSO during Field Day should have been able to do so. People wouldn't
show up in large numbers for the many demonstrations and presentations
that AMSAT people put on for radio clubs, hamfests, etc.

> The  FM birds are something I can work while traveling. Have been able
> to find a SSB setup that is compact enough to carry on a plane.

This almost reads like you were trying to say "Haven't been able to
find a SSB setup that is compact .... ".

With the advent of smaller radios, you *can* carry an SSB satellite
setup on a plane that allows all-mode full-duplex satellite operation.
I travel with two FT-817NDs, and in recent times a TH-F6A (its all-
mode receiver is a backup to the 817 I use as a receiver) also goes
along, all in an old laptop bag. If you want computer control of the
radios, you can use a netbook with software like SatPC32 - which
could also fit in the same bag. Along with these 3 radios, I also
take a TH-D72A. It is my APRS radio, and works well as a full-
duplex FM satellite radio. That laptop bag also has room for more
batteries, a GPS receiver, compass, and and other accessories.

Unless you are using a long flexible whip, the antenna (directional
antenna like a Yagi or log periodic, or a telescoping whip) may have
to go in a checked bag due to security regulations. The higher-value
parts of your station can go with you into the cabin, along with the
accessories that are not considered dangerous for carry-on luggage.

> Look at this from an emergency perspective. If you only had an ht
> and couldnt access a repeater, you woul at least have a chance to
> get help on a satellite pass.

Definitely! You'd have to be quick with your information, but that would
be a possibility. Something I always kept in mind on my road trips around
northern Arizona and southern Utah in 2009 and 2010, since there were
many places without mobile-phone coverage up there. Know when the
passes come by, and you can plan to show up on those passes to send
and receive information in that sort of situation.

73!






Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/

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In terms of a small compact, SSB satellite station, you can work the SSB
birds with a single FT817. It is more difficult than having full duplex, but
it can be done. I have done it plenty of times with similar radios.

73s John AA5JG

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <
amsat-> wrote:

> Hi Ron!
>
> > I have to disagree. Have you tried working one of the FM birds using a 2
> > watt ht and a whip antenna ?
>
> Unfortunately, the comments like "I cannot see any difference in pushing
> a button on an FM bird than operating a cell phone" (from WB6LLO's
> post in this thread) show up from time to time. If FM satellites were that
> simple to operate, then everyone who attempted to make an FM satellite
> QSO during Field Day should have been able to do so. People wouldn't
> show up in large numbers for the many demonstrations and presentations
> that AMSAT people put on for radio clubs, hamfests, etc.
>
> > The FM birds are something I can work while traveling. Have been able
> > to find a SSB setup that is compact enough to carry on a plane.
>
> This almost reads like you were trying to say "Haven't been able to
> find a SSB setup that is compact .... ".
>
> With the advent of smaller radios, you *can* carry an SSB satellite
> setup on a plane that allows all-mode full-duplex satellite operation.
> I travel with two FT-817NDs, and in recent times a TH-F6A (its all-
> mode receiver is a backup to the 817 I use as a receiver) also goes
> along, all in an old laptop bag. If you want computer control of the
> radios, you can use a netbook with software like SatPC32 - which
> could also fit in the same bag. Along with these 3 radios, I also
> take a TH-D72A. It is my APRS radio, and works well as a full-
> duplex FM satellite radio. That laptop bag also has room for more
> batteries, a GPS receiver, compass, and and other accessories.
>
> Unless you are using a long flexible whip, the antenna (directional
> antenna like a Yagi or log periodic, or a telescoping whip) may have
> to go in a checked bag due to security regulations. The higher-value
> parts of your station can go with you into the cabin, along with the
> accessories that are not considered dangerous for carry-on luggage.
>
> > Look at this from an emergency perspective. If you only had an ht
> > and couldnt access a repeater, you woul at least have a chance to
> > get help on a satellite pass.
>
> Definitely! You'd have to be quick with your information, but that would
> be a possibility. Something I always kept in mind on my road trips around
> northern Arizona and southern Utah in 2009 and 2010, since there were
> many places without mobile-phone coverage up there. Know when the
> passes come by, and you can plan to show up on those passes to send
> and receive information in that sort of situation.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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)

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: "Dave Guimont" <>
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 12:23 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FM satellites
>
> Look at this from an emergency perspective. If you only had an ht and
> couldnt access a repeater, you woul at least have a chance to get help
> on a satellite pass.
>
> Ron
> Ka4kyi
>
Hi Ron, KA4KYI

If you are into a real emergency you have not the time to wait for a
possible FM satellite pass and have a chance that someone is
understanding your problem,your location and how to hep you into
the QRM made by a lot of stations calling in the same channel and
all at the same time.

A linear transponder in SSB plenty of room for FDMA (Frequency
Division Multiple Access ) would be better but not ideal.

In emergency situation novadays a cell-phone is much much better
and reliable.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

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> In emergency situation novadays a cell-phone
> is much much better and reliable.

I think there are a lot of people in Haiti that might disagree?

Bob, Wb4APR


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On 7/6/2011 4:30 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>> In emergency situation novadays a cell-phone
>> is much much better and reliable.
> I think there are a lot of people in Haiti that might disagree
Unfortunately, we have a lot of people with ham licenses who have never
understood or seen the complexity behind cellular networks to understand how
fragile they actually are. Sure, the cell site is wireless to you, but it has
power and wired telephony requirements that put it several steps on the risk
ladder above a ham repeater, and extremely high risk for failure compared to
simplex radio comms.

Gregg
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When the towers are damaged or the power fails to the cell site, cell
phones don't even make good boat anchors.

Jim WA4IVM

ps: When the media arrive and overload the system, it gets worse!



On 7/6/2011 5:30 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>> In emergency situation novadays a cell-phone
>> is much much better and reliable.
> I think there are a lot of people in Haiti that might disagree?
>
> Bob, Wb4APR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

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On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Gregg Wonderly <> wrote:
> On 7/6/2011 4:30 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>>> In emergency situation novadays a cell-phone
>>> is much much better and reliable.
>> I think there are a lot of people in Haiti that might disagree
> Unfortunately, we have a lot of people with ham licenses who have never
> understood or seen the complexity behind cellular networks to understand how
> fragile they actually are.  Sure, the cell site is wireless to you, but it has
> power and wired telephony requirements that put it several steps on the risk
> ladder above a ham repeater, and extremely high risk for failure compared to
> simplex radio comms.

That's not it at all as I see it. Does anyone on this list really
believe when aliens attack that repeaters will survive but cellular
networks will all be done?

Network survival is not the pertinent metric; network *recovery* is.

Bob mentioned Haiti. That is a good example. How many active
repeaters do you think are in Haiti? How many do you think survived
the Earthquake? How many repeaters are in third-world country here>?

The bottom line is setting up an RF station to communicate vital
information is an order of magnitude faster than to rely on the cell
companies to restore service. That's the issue.

Now tie this to AMSAT-BB:

If I could switch from using a local cell to one based on
geosynchronous satellites than RF would probably not be my first
option since cell phones offer more forms of communication than a
radio (think HT).

-aps (KC2ZSX)

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