If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
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)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
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)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
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)
So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
_______________________________________________
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)
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

_______________________________________________
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)

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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> _______________________________________________
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)
So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

_______________________________________________
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)
About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

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)
Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

_______________________________________________
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
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)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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)
True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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)
So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

_______________________________________________
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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

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Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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)
>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

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)
About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

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)
Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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)
I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:

>From the FD rules (2011):
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.


73,

Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK

On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Floyd Rodgers wrote:

> Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
> hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
> than the allowed one contact?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:

>From the FD rules (2011):
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.


73,

Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK

On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Floyd Rodgers wrote:

> Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
> hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
> than the allowed one contact?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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The ARRL should impose an ERP limit for satellite contacts. That
would solve the problem. I don't see how running amplifiers on FD is
in the spirit of what FD is all about. I've made contacts using 50 mw
so why do stations use 100+ watts *before* the antenna.. I wouldn't
want my kids playing around a FD site with this time of setup.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:

>From the FD rules (2011):
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.


73,

Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK

On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Floyd Rodgers wrote:

> Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
> hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
> than the allowed one contact?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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The ARRL should impose an ERP limit for satellite contacts. That
would solve the problem. I don't see how running amplifiers on FD is
in the spirit of what FD is all about. I've made contacts using 50 mw
so why do stations use 100+ watts *before* the antenna.. I wouldn't
want my kids playing around a FD site with this time of setup.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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Note that it says "additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit ***unless
prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1*** " (emphasis mine), which you conveniently
omitted.


Rule 7.3.7.1 says "Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single
channel FM satellite."

So yes, there IS such a rule.



George, KA3HSW





----- Original Message ----
> From: Andreas Junge <>
> To: AMSAT -BB
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 1:29:29 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You
>need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:
>
>
> >From the FD rules (2011):
> 7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least
>one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General
>Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation)
>is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite
>transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs
>also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary
>sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for
>contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for
>QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two
>Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK
>
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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:

>From the FD rules (2011):
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.


73,

Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK

On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Floyd Rodgers wrote:

> Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
> hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
> than the allowed one contact?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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The ARRL should impose an ERP limit for satellite contacts. That
would solve the problem. I don't see how running amplifiers on FD is
in the spirit of what FD is all about. I've made contacts using 50 mw
so why do stations use 100+ watts *before* the antenna.. I wouldn't
want my kids playing around a FD site with this time of setup.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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Note that it says "additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit ***unless
prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1*** " (emphasis mine), which you conveniently
omitted.


Rule 7.3.7.1 says "Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single
channel FM satellite."

So yes, there IS such a rule.



George, KA3HSW





----- Original Message ----
> From: Andreas Junge <>
> To: AMSAT -BB
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 1:29:29 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You
>need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:
>
>
> >From the FD rules (2011):
> 7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least
>one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General
>Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation)
>is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite
>transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs
>also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary
>sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for
>contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for
>QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two
>Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK
>
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Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such.
My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only
later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
really wasn't one.

All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
way to figure out ways of doing stuff.

I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
those of rovers.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf en72

On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
>
> On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
>> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>>
>

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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
)
My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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>

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About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:

>From the FD rules (2011):
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.


73,

Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK

On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Floyd Rodgers wrote:

> Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
> hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
> than the allowed one contact?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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The ARRL should impose an ERP limit for satellite contacts. That
would solve the problem. I don't see how running amplifiers on FD is
in the spirit of what FD is all about. I've made contacts using 50 mw
so why do stations use 100+ watts *before* the antenna.. I wouldn't
want my kids playing around a FD site with this time of setup.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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Note that it says "additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit ***unless
prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1*** " (emphasis mine), which you conveniently
omitted.


Rule 7.3.7.1 says "Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single
channel FM satellite."

So yes, there IS such a rule.



George, KA3HSW





----- Original Message ----
> From: Andreas Junge <>
> To: AMSAT -BB
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 1:29:29 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You
>need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:
>
>
> >From the FD rules (2011):
> 7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least
>one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General
>Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation)
>is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite
>transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs
>also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary
>sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for
>contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for
>QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two
>Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK
>
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Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such.
My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only
later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
really wasn't one.

All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
way to figure out ways of doing stuff.

I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
those of rovers.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf en72

On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
>
> On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
>> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>>
>

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Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the
scores in QST!

73s John AA5JG

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' <> wrote:

> Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as
> such.
> My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only
> later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
> really wasn't one.
>
> All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
> Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
> summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
> way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
>
> I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
> offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
> speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
> those of rovers.
>
> --STeve Andre'
> wb8wsf en72
>
> On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> > A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> > your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> > FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
> >
> > On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> >> I think we have to let go of the mantra that �any use of the bandwidth
> is good use� with respect to �encouraging more satellite activity�. Wasn�t
> that the original intent of the �100 point bonus� items? To encourage
> specific activities � traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff KB2M" <>
To: "AMSAT"
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)

73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ


-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
To: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess

It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
WA4HFN em55 Damon

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)
Is there a good FAQ / advice page online somewhere for relative newbies like myself on satellite etiquette (no high power, no continuous long calls, listen first etc)?

Dominic G6NQO



Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sender: amsat-bb-
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:47
To: <>
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29 with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout send us packing.

All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.

One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if I was doing something stupid on a pass.

BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.

73,


Tom Schaefer, NY4I

EL88pb
Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15



On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:

> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>_______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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)
In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
to be shared.

Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
for you to make good use of your system.

Nothing is free in this world...

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts ...

I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean, we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ... but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS

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True and isn't that actually breaking a FCC rule law also, ya know we
must only run the minimum power needed to maintain the contact? being
50 DB stronger than any other signal on the bird is clearly breaking a
federal law. rule.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
> To: "AMSAT"
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
> Behalf Of
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>
> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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So if there are three stations operating, only two can make a contact
because the once two make contact with each other neither can contact the
third.

John WA4WDL
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" <>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:36 AM
To: <>
Cc: "AMSAT"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess

> My game plan was to listen to the zoo on the FM birds just for kicks but
> use the linear birds for real contacts. After missing out last year as I
> was a complete SAT newbie, I snagged a contact with first pass on FO-29
> with W3AO (25A MDC). I got a few more contacts on VO-52 before our washout
> send us packing.
>
> All it took this year was an IC 9100, 2m/440 SAT beam, MacDoppler and a
> rotator. Next year it is back to the Arrow and the tripod but it was fun
> getting that one contact this year versus missing out last year.
>
> One suggestion on the multiple FM contacts�if you know any calls that were
> making multiple contacts, call them out here. Granted, the call may be the
> field day call, but I did hear guys that were 1D (at home) making more
> than one contact. I just don't remember the calls. Peer pressure is a
> wonderful thing to correct bad behavior. We should single operators that
> don't play by the rules just as I would hope someone would let me know if
> I was doing something stupid on a pass.
>
> BTW, I was W4TA 5A West Central Florida this year.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Tom Schaefer, NY4I
>
> EL88pb
> Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389
> DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:13 AM, wrote:
>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were
>> too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This
>> should not have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could
>> send the ARRL world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during
>> FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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About 50 years ago during the SSB wars, Dubya TOO Ole Yankee, W2OY,
was notorious for calling, *"CQ CQ, don't want any KIDS, LIDS or BUS
PATROLS, just good clean A M signals!" *
This describes at least three groups in ham radio today, not just on HF.

Kids *having fun*
LIDS *being LIDS*
Bus Patrols*commenting on the first two and jealous that they can't
participate "their way"*.

Only thing changed is 50 years have passed and the topic is satellites,
not AM.

Jim




On 6/27/2011 12:12 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
> In my several years of being a licensed ham, this is the theme of most contacts
> about SAT work. The OSCAR class stations always just do whatever they want. It
> seems that the attitude is, I've spent the time and money to have this kind of
> station, and I'm entitled to use it at my discretion. I think it is great to
> see this kind of dedication to operating, but as many are saying here and have
> said before, it seems a little bit more than unfair that a single resource on
> the other end, is not shared fairly, especially for equipment which was intended
> to be shared.
>
> Satellites are limited resources. If you put a lot of time and money into your
> station to use that limited resource, you might also consider putting some time
> and money into getting additional resources up in the air so that it's easier
> for you to make good use of your system.
>
> Nothing is free in this world...
>
> Gregg Wonderly
> W5GGW
>
> On 6/27/2011 10:54 AM, wrote:
>> Field Day to my understanding is to see how ops can get on the with the bare minimum of equipment needed to make the contact.NOT to blast the **** out of the bird and walk all over the little guy trying to play fair.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff KB2M"<>
>> To: "AMSAT"
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:35:35 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>>
>> If it wasn't for the Oscar class stations making "HI POWER multi contacts"
>> who would help the vast majority of weak portable FD stations make their one
>> FD contact? Certainly not a weak station calling CQ for 5 passes! I've
>> never heard two OCS making contact with each other, it's always with a much
>> weaker station. This is the other side of the same argument heard every year
>> after FD. Anyway I got my contact :)
>>
>> 73 Jeff kb2m 2A SNJ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb- [mailto:amsat-bb-] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM
>> To: AMSAT
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] FD Mess
>>
>> It took me 5 satellite passes before I could make 1 contact There were too
>> many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi contacts .This should not
>> have happened. Maybe someone with good writting skills could send the ARRL
>> world above 50 an artical on how to work the birds during FD
>> WA4HFN em55 Damon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But is seems that this is "only" a problem on the FM birds.

Maybe it's past time to not build any more FM satellites
and only the likes of AO-40.

I have given up on the FM birds because it seems that
(using the words of the late W2OY) every kid lid and space
cadet it there. (remind anyone of the 27 meter band?)

John, W0JAB
heat shield up

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I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.

I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.

The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:

7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an
amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule
3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one
dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also
count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate
"band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the
additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO
must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.


And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?

IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.

Bill
W1PA
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A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?

On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>

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There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:

>From the FD rules (2011):
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.


73,

Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK

On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Floyd Rodgers wrote:

> Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
> hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
> than the allowed one contact?
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The ARRL should impose an ERP limit for satellite contacts. That
would solve the problem. I don't see how running amplifiers on FD is
in the spirit of what FD is all about. I've made contacts using 50 mw
so why do stations use 100+ watts *before* the antenna.. I wouldn't
want my kids playing around a FD site with this time of setup.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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Note that it says "additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit ***unless
prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1*** " (emphasis mine), which you conveniently
omitted.


Rule 7.3.7.1 says "Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single
channel FM satellite."

So yes, there IS such a rule.



George, KA3HSW





----- Original Message ----
> From: Andreas Junge <>
> To: AMSAT -BB
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 1:29:29 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> There is no such rule in the FD that limits you to one Satellite contact. You
>need AT LEAST one for the 100 bonus points:
>
>
> >From the FD rules (2011):
> 7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least
>one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General
>Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation)
>is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite
>transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs
>also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary
>sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for
>contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for
>QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two
>Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andreas, N6NU, CM87VK
>
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Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such.
My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only
later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
really wasn't one.

All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
way to figure out ways of doing stuff.

I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
those of rovers.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf en72

On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
>
> On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
>> I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
>>
>

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Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the
scores in QST!

73s John AA5JG

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' <> wrote:

> Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as
> such.
> My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only
> later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
> really wasn't one.
>
> All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
> Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
> summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
> way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
>
> I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
> offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
> speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
> those of rovers.
>
> --STeve Andre'
> wb8wsf en72
>
> On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> > A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> > your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> > FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
> >
> > On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> >> I think we have to let go of the mantra that �any use of the bandwidth
> is good use� with respect to �encouraging more satellite activity�. Wasn�t
> that the original intent of the �100 point bonus� items? To encourage
> specific activities � traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
> >>
> >
>
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The ARRL doesn't care! According to them, "Field Day is not a contest; no certificates are awarded" and
"ARRL Field Day is not a fully adjudicated contest, which explains much of its popularity"

So, no awards, no disqualifications. Just posting your scores on the wall with nothing to back it up.


In other words, it's one giant fish story. The biggest liar wins.



73 de W0HV, Jim in Raymore, MO
Light travels faster than sound... This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.


Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:51:42 -0500
From: Floyd Rodgers <>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Cc: amsat-
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Guys, this seems simple to fix. The arrl gets the logs of everyone. How
hard is it to build a table of the sat contacts and check who gets more
than the allowed one contact?


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