Hello everyone,

Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:

I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory.  ( the most basic one)

My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.

Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?

Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of  apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?


It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though). 

Thanks in advance,
Shom






________________________________
From: "macosx-tex-"
To: macosx-
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17

Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
    macosx-

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Today's Topics:

  1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
  3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
  8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Howdy,

I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
From: François Chaplais     <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
Best
    François
Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.

Ah the good old days!

(Of the 128K)

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit  architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

Best.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Herb

On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
No, I can't afford an SSD!

Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.

Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
From: George Gratzer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Herb,

May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!

It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.

I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.

My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.

On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.

Good luck,

George

On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
    delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:

> there are cheaper SSD alternatives


This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support 
the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search 
endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF 
output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording 
reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the 
faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached! 
No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that 
much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)

--
Greetings

  Pete

Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any 
direction.



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:

> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to 
> keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money 
> on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.

The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that 
offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for 
temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the 
problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk 
block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files 
and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.

--
Greetings

  Pete

We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.

Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).

I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:

>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.


You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).

There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:

> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>>
>>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>>
>>
>> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>
>> Ah the good old days!
>>
>> (Of the 128K)
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the 
gym!
Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>
>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>
>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>>
>>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>>
>>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> --schremmer
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to 
>> the gym!
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet 
> unless you were at a large University).

Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------


-------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/



End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
******************************************

Hello everyone,

Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:

I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory.  ( the most basic one)

My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.

Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?

Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of  apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?


It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though). 

Thanks in advance,
Shom






________________________________
From: "macosx-tex-"
To: macosx-
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17

Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
    macosx-

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    macosx-tex-

You can reach the person managing the list at
    macosx-tex-

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
  3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
  8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Howdy,

I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
From: François Chaplais     <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
Best
    François
Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.

Ah the good old days!

(Of the 128K)

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit  architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

Best.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Herb

On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
No, I can't afford an SSD!

Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.

Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
From: George Gratzer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Herb,

May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!

It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.

I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.

My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.

On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.

Good luck,

George

On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
    delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:

> there are cheaper SSD alternatives


This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support 
the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search 
endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF 
output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording 
reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the 
faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached! 
No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that 
much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)

--
Greetings

  Pete

Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any 
direction.



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:

> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to 
> keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money 
> on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.

The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that 
offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for 
temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the 
problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk 
block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files 
and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.

--
Greetings

  Pete

We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.

Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).

I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:

>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.


You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).

There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:

> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>>
>>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>>
>>
>> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>
>> Ah the good old days!
>>
>> (Of the 128K)
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the 
gym!
Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>
>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>
>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>>
>>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>>
>>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> --schremmer
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to 
>> the gym!
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet 
> unless you were at a large University).

Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------


-------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
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End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
******************************************

I would say, extra memory is the best investment you can make -- 8GB is the minimum to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture (and use the 64-bit version of MacTeX); it also reduces the I/Os to disk due to swapping.

There is no difference in usage between wireless and wired versions of the Apple keyboards in my view. The primary difference is that the wireless lacks the numeric keypad at the right. I have both and I can go from one to the other easily.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 4:01 PM, soumya dipta wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:
>
> I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory. ( the most basic one)
>
> My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.
>
> Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?
>
> Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?
>
> It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though).
> Thanks in advance,
> Shom
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "macosx-tex-"
> To: macosx-
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
> Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>
> Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
> macosx-
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> macosx-tex-
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
> 3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
> 8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
> Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
> From: François Chaplais <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
> Best
> François
> Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >
> > Ah the good old days!
> >
> > (Of the 128K)
> >
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.
>
> Best.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Herb
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
> No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.
>
> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
> From: George Gratzer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Herb,
>
> May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!
>
> It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.
>
> I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.
>
> My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.
>
> On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.
>
> Good luck,
>
> George
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
> > there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF
> output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording
> reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the
> faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached!
> No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that
> much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any
> direction.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:
>
> > Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to
> > keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money
> > on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for
> temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the
> problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk
> block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files
> and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
> >
> > Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >
> >> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >
> >
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> > That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.
>
>
> You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).
>
> There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:
>
> > OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
> >
> > I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
> >
> > ==Tamer
> >
> > On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >>
> >>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >>
> >>
> >> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>
> >> Ah the good old days!
> >>
> >> (Of the 128K)
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
> gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>
> >>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>
> >>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> --schremmer
> >>
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >
> > Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>>
> >>>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> --schremmer
> >>>
> >>> Howdy,
> >>>
> >>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >>
> >> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to
> >> the gym!
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet
> > unless you were at a large University).
>
> Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>
>
>
> End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
> ******************************************
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
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> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>

Hello everyone,

Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:

I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory.  ( the most basic one)

My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.

Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?

Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of  apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?


It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though). 

Thanks in advance,
Shom






________________________________
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Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17

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Today's Topics:

  1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
  3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
  8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Howdy,

I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
From: François Chaplais     <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
Best
    François
Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.

Ah the good old days!

(Of the 128K)

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit  architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

Best.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Herb

On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
No, I can't afford an SSD!

Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.

Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
From: George Gratzer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Herb,

May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!

It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.

I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.

My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.

On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.

Good luck,

George

On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
    delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:

> there are cheaper SSD alternatives


This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support 
the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search 
endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF 
output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording 
reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the 
faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached! 
No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that 
much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)

--
Greetings

  Pete

Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any 
direction.



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:

> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to 
> keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money 
> on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.

The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that 
offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for 
temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the 
problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk 
block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files 
and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.

--
Greetings

  Pete

We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.

Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).

I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:

>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.


You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).

There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:

> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>>
>>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>>
>>
>> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>
>> Ah the good old days!
>>
>> (Of the 128K)
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the 
gym!
Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>
>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>
>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>>
>>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>>
>>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> --schremmer
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to 
>> the gym!
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet 
> unless you were at a large University).

Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------


-------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
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End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
******************************************

I would say, extra memory is the best investment you can make -- 8GB is the minimum to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture (and use the 64-bit version of MacTeX); it also reduces the I/Os to disk due to swapping.

There is no difference in usage between wireless and wired versions of the Apple keyboards in my view. The primary difference is that the wireless lacks the numeric keypad at the right. I have both and I can go from one to the other easily.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 4:01 PM, soumya dipta wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:
>
> I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory. ( the most basic one)
>
> My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.
>
> Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?
>
> Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?
>
> It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though).
> Thanks in advance,
> Shom
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "macosx-tex-"
> To: macosx-
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
> Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>
> Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
> macosx-
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> macosx-tex-
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
> 3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
> 8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
> Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
> From: François Chaplais <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
> Best
> François
> Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >
> > Ah the good old days!
> >
> > (Of the 128K)
> >
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.
>
> Best.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Herb
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
> No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.
>
> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
> From: George Gratzer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Herb,
>
> May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!
>
> It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.
>
> I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.
>
> My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.
>
> On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.
>
> Good luck,
>
> George
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
> > there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF
> output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording
> reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the
> faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached!
> No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that
> much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any
> direction.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:
>
> > Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to
> > keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money
> > on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for
> temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the
> problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk
> block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files
> and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
> >
> > Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >
> >> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >
> >
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> > That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.
>
>
> You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).
>
> There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:
>
> > OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
> >
> > I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
> >
> > ==Tamer
> >
> > On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >>
> >>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >>
> >>
> >> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>
> >> Ah the good old days!
> >>
> >> (Of the 128K)
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
> gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>
> >>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>
> >>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> --schremmer
> >>
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >
> > Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>>
> >>>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> --schremmer
> >>>
> >>> Howdy,
> >>>
> >>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >>
> >> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to
> >> the gym!
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet
> > unless you were at a large University).
>
> Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>
>
>
> End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
> ******************************************
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



On Jun 25, 2011, at 7:28, "M. Tamer Özsu" <> wrote:

> I would say, extra memory is the best investment you can make -- 8GB is the minimum to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture (and use the 64-bit version of MacTeX); it also reduces the I/Os to disk due to swapping.
>
> There is no difference in usage between wireless and wired versions of the Apple keyboards in my view. The primary difference is that the wireless lacks the numeric keypad at the right. I have both and I can go from one to the other easily.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 4:01 PM, soumya dipta wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:
>>
>> I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory. ( the most basic one)
>>
>> My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.
>>
>> Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?
>>
>> Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?
>>
>> It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though).
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Shom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "macosx-tex-"
>> To: macosx-
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
>> Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>>
>> Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
>> macosx-
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> macosx-tex-
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> macosx-tex-
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
>> 2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
>> 3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>> 4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
>> 5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
>> 6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
>> 7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
>> 8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
>> 9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
>> 10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
>> 11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
>> 12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
>> 13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
>> 14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>> 15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
>> 16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
>> From: Herbert Schulz <>
>> Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
>> Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Herb Schulz
>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
>> From: François Chaplais <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
>> Best
>> François
>> Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :
>>
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>> >
>> > Good Luck,
>> >
>> > Herb Schulz
>> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
>> From: Alain Schremmer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> > I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>
>> Ah the good old days!
>>
>> (Of the 128K)
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
>> From: Herbert Schulz <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >
>> >> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >
>> > Ah the good old days!
>> >
>> > (Of the 128K)
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Herb Schulz
>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
>> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>>
>> It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.
>>
>> Best.
>>
>> ==Tamer
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>> >
>> > Good Luck,
>> >
>> > Herb Schulz
>> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
>> From: Ralph Martin <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Herb
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
>> No, I can't afford an SSD!
>>
>> Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.
>>
>> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Ralph
>> --
>> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
>> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
>> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
>> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
>> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
>> From: George Gratzer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>>
>> Herb,
>>
>> May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!
>>
>> It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.
>>
>> I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.
>>
>> My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.
>>
>> On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> George
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>> >
>> > Good Luck,
>> >
>> > Herb Schulz
>> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
>> From: Peter Dyballa <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
>> delsp=yes
>>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>>
>> > there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>>
>>
>> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
>> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
>> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF
>> output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording
>> reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>> I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the
>> faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached!
>> No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that
>> much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)
>>
>> --
>> Greetings
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any
>> direction.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
>> From: Peter Dyballa <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:
>>
>> > Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to
>> > keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money
>> > on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>>
>> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
>> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for
>> temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the
>> problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk
>> block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files
>> and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.
>>
>> --
>> Greetings
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
>> From: Ralph Martin <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>> I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Ralph
>> --
>> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
>> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
>> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
>> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
>> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
>> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>>
>> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>>
>> ==Tamer
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>> >
>> >> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>> >
>> >
>> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
>> From: Ralph Martin <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> > The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
>> > That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.
>>
>>
>> You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).
>>
>> There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Ralph
>> --
>> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
>> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
>> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
>> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
>> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
>> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).
>>
>> ==Tamer
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:
>>
>> > OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>> >
>> > I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>> >
>> > ==Tamer
>> >
>> > On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>> >>
>> >>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
>> From: Alain Schremmer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >>
>> >> Ah the good old days!
>> >>
>> >> (Of the 128K)
>> >>
>> >> Best regards
>> >> --schremmer
>> >
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
>> gym!
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
>> From: Herbert Schulz <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ah the good old days!
>> >>>
>> >>> (Of the 128K)
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards
>> >>> --schremmer
>> >>
>> >> Howdy,
>> >>
>> >> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>> >
>> > Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
>> > Best regards
>> > --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Herb Schulz
>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
>> From: Alain Schremmer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ah the good old days!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> (Of the 128K)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards
>> >>>> --schremmer
>> >>>
>> >>> Howdy,
>> >>>
>> >>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>> >>
>> >> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to
>> >> the gym!
>> >> Best regards
>> >> --schremmer
>> >
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet
>> > unless you were at a large University).
>>
>> Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> -------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>> ******************************************
>>
>>
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
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>>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
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> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>

Hello everyone,

Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:

I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory.  ( the most basic one)

My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.

Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?

Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of  apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?


It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though). 

Thanks in advance,
Shom






________________________________
From: "macosx-tex-"
To: macosx-
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17

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Today's Topics:

  1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
  3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
  8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
  10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
  13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
  14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
  15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
  16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Howdy,

I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
From: François Chaplais     <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
Best
    François
Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.

Ah the good old days!

(Of the 128K)

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit  architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

Best.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Herb

On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
No, I can't afford an SSD!

Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.

Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
From: George Gratzer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Herb,

May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!

It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.

I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.

My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.

On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.

Good luck,

George

On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
    delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:

> there are cheaper SSD alternatives


This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support 
the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search 
endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF 
output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording 
reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the 
faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached! 
No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that 
much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)

--
Greetings

  Pete

Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any 
direction.



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
From: Peter Dyballa <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes


Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:

> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to 
> keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money 
> on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.

The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that 
offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for 
temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the 
problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk 
block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files 
and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.

--
Greetings

  Pete

We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)

I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.

Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).

I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:

>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
From: Ralph Martin <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.


You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).

There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.


Best wishes

Ralph
--
Prof. Ralph Martin                          Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
Computer Science & Informatics            Fax:  +44(0)29 2087 4598
Cardiff University                  Email: mailto:
5 The Parade, Roath                  WWW:  http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK    VOIP: sip:








------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:

> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>>
>>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>>
>>
>> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>
>> Ah the good old days!
>>
>> (Of the 128K)
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P

Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the 
gym!
Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
From: Herbert Schulz <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>
>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>
>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer

Howdy,

Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
From: Alain Schremmer <>
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:

>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>>>
>>>> Ah the good old days!
>>>>
>>>> (Of the 128K)
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> --schremmer
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to 
>> the gym!
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet 
> unless you were at a large University).

Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?

Best regards
--schremmer



------------------------------


-------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
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End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
******************************************

I would say, extra memory is the best investment you can make -- 8GB is the minimum to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture (and use the 64-bit version of MacTeX); it also reduces the I/Os to disk due to swapping.

There is no difference in usage between wireless and wired versions of the Apple keyboards in my view. The primary difference is that the wireless lacks the numeric keypad at the right. I have both and I can go from one to the other easily.

==Tamer

On 2011-06-24, at 4:01 PM, soumya dipta wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:
>
> I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory. ( the most basic one)
>
> My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.
>
> Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?
>
> Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?
>
> It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though).
> Thanks in advance,
> Shom
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "macosx-tex-"
> To: macosx-
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
> Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>
> Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
> macosx-
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> macosx-tex-
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> macosx-tex-
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
> 3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
> 8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
> Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
> From: François Chaplais <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
> Best
> François
> Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >
> > Ah the good old days!
> >
> > (Of the 128K)
> >
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.
>
> Best.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Herb
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
> No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.
>
> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
> From: George Gratzer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Herb,
>
> May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!
>
> It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.
>
> I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.
>
> My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.
>
> On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.
>
> Good luck,
>
> George
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
> > there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF
> output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording
> reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the
> faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached!
> No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that
> much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any
> direction.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:
>
> > Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to
> > keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money
> > on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for
> temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the
> problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk
> block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files
> and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
> >
> > Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >
> >> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >
> >
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> > That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.
>
>
> You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).
>
> There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:
>
> > OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
> >
> > I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
> >
> > ==Tamer
> >
> > On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >>
> >>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >>
> >>
> >> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>
> >> Ah the good old days!
> >>
> >> (Of the 128K)
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
> gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>
> >>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>
> >>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> --schremmer
> >>
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >
> > Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>>
> >>>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> --schremmer
> >>>
> >>> Howdy,
> >>>
> >>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >>
> >> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to
> >> the gym!
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet
> > unless you were at a large University).
>
> Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
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>
>
>
> End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
> ******************************************
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
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>



On Jun 25, 2011, at 7:28, "M. Tamer Özsu" <> wrote:

> I would say, extra memory is the best investment you can make -- 8GB is the minimum to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture (and use the 64-bit version of MacTeX); it also reduces the I/Os to disk due to swapping.
>
> There is no difference in usage between wireless and wired versions of the Apple keyboards in my view. The primary difference is that the wireless lacks the numeric keypad at the right. I have both and I can go from one to the other easily.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 4:01 PM, soumya dipta wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:
>>
>> I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory. ( the most basic one)
>>
>> My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.
>>
>> Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?
>>
>> Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of apple wireless keyboard over apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of time?
>>
>> It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python, C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though).
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Shom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "macosx-tex-"
>> To: macosx-
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
>> Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>>
>> Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
>> macosx-
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
>> 2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
>> 3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>> 4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
>> 5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
>> 6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
>> 7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
>> 8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
>> 9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
>> 10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
>> 11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
>> 12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
>> 13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
>> 14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>> 15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
>> 16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
>> From: Herbert Schulz <>
>> Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
>> Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Herb Schulz
>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
>> From: François Chaplais <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
>> Best
>> François
>> Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :
>>
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>> >
>> > Good Luck,
>> >
>> > Herb Schulz
>> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
>> From: Alain Schremmer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> > I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>>
>> Ah the good old days!
>>
>> (Of the 128K)
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
>> From: Herbert Schulz <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >
>> >> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >
>> > Ah the good old days!
>> >
>> > (Of the 128K)
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Herb Schulz
>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
>> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>>
>> It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit 64-bit architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.
>>
>> Best.
>>
>> ==Tamer
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>> >
>> > Good Luck,
>> >
>> > Herb Schulz
>> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
>> From: Ralph Martin <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Herb
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
>> No, I can't afford an SSD!
>>
>> Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs, with SSD: 3 seconds.
>>
>> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Ralph
>> --
>> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
>> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
>> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
>> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
>> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
>> From: George Gratzer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>>
>> Herb,
>>
>> May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!
>>
>> It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.
>>
>> I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.
>>
>> My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.
>>
>> On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of stuff, put it on an external drive.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> George
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine. The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>> >
>> > Good Luck,
>> >
>> > Herb Schulz
>> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
>> From: Peter Dyballa <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
>> delsp=yes
>>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>>
>> > there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>>
>>
>> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
>> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
>> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF
>> output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording
>> reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>> I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the
>> faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached!
>> No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that
>> much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)
>>
>> --
>> Greetings
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any
>> direction.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
>> From: Peter Dyballa <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>>
>> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:
>>
>> > Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to
>> > keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money
>> > on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>>
>> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
>> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for
>> temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the
>> problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk
>> block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files
>> and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.
>>
>> --
>> Greetings
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
>> From: Ralph Martin <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>> I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time). However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much faster than an HD.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Ralph
>> --
>> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
>> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
>> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
>> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
>> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
>> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>>
>> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>>
>> ==Tamer
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>> >
>> >> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>> >
>> >
>> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
>> From: Ralph Martin <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> > The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
>> > That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.
>>
>>
>> You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).
>>
>> There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several years now, and would never go back.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Ralph
>> --
>> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
>> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
>> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
>> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
>> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
>> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).
>>
>> ==Tamer
>>
>> On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:
>>
>> > OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is more expensive).
>> >
>> > I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>> >
>> > ==Tamer
>> >
>> > On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>> >>
>> >>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
>> From: Alain Schremmer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >>
>> >> Ah the good old days!
>> >>
>> >> (Of the 128K)
>> >>
>> >> Best regards
>> >> --schremmer
>> >
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>>
>> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
>> gym!
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
>> From: Herbert Schulz <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ah the good old days!
>> >>>
>> >>> (Of the 128K)
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards
>> >>> --schremmer
>> >>
>> >> Howdy,
>> >>
>> >> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>> >
>> > Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the gym!
>> > Best regards
>> > --schremmer
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless you were at a large University).
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Herb Schulz
>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
>> From: Alain Schremmer <>
>> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
>> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
>> Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ah the good old days!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> (Of the 128K)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards
>> >>>> --schremmer
>> >>>
>> >>> Howdy,
>> >>>
>> >>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>> >>
>> >> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to
>> >> the gym!
>> >> Best regards
>> >> --schremmer
>> >
>> > Howdy,
>> >
>> > Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet
>> > unless you were at a large University).
>>
>> Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?
>>
>> Best regards
>> --schremmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> -------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>> ******************************************
>>
>>
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>


I am using a new mac mini hooked up to large 24 inch LCD HDMI screen for my
work.
I am also starting to use TeXShop.

I need some help and working advice on installation of GNUPLOT. I had
Octave up.




Mac mini aluminum

Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo

Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz

Number Of Processors: 1

Total Number Of Cores: 2

L2 Cache: 3 MB

Memory: 2 GB



I am using Apple wireless keyboard for over a year now with a wired mouse.
The battery on keyboard use rechargeable apple battery- cost effective.
Keyboard - no issue. For wired mouse-wish it was wireless..the wire is too
short for comfort.
Thanks a lot,
Mark

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 4:01 AM, soumya dipta <
> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Since we are at this topic, I thought it will be a good idea to ask:
>
> I am planning to get a new imac ( in july). My budget constraints encourage
> me to go for the basic 21.5 '; 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with 6MB
> on-chip shared L3 cache; AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB
> of GDDR5 memory. ( the most basic one)
>
> My question is, if it is really worth the investment going for the 8GB RAM.
>
> Is there a major difference between core i5 and i7?
>
> Also, are there any (hidden) disadvantages of apple wireless keyboard over
> apple numeric keyboard, for Texing/ programming over extended periods of
> time?
>
> It is relevant to mention that: I am a mathematician, so my main usage
> (apart from email, you tube etc) are lots of Texing, some occasional python,
> C, Mathematica, Matlab, SAGE programming (nothing heavy duty though).
> Thanks in advance,
> Shom
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "macosx-tex-" <
> macosx-tex->
> *To:* macosx-
> *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2011 3:00 PM
> *Subject:* MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
>
> Send MacOSX-TeX mailing list submissions to
> macosx-
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of MacOSX-TeX digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 2. Re: New Laptop... (François Chaplais)
> 3. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 4. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 5. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 6. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 7. Re: New Laptop... (George Gratzer)
> 8. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 9. Re: New Laptop... (Peter Dyballa)
> 10. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 11. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 12. Re: New Laptop... (Ralph Martin)
> 13. Re: New Laptop... (M. Tamer Özsu)
> 14. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
> 15. Re: New Laptop... (Herbert Schulz)
> 16. Re: New Laptop... (Alain Schremmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:18:29 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: List TeX on Mac OS X Mailing
> Message-ID: <7B4B2E1C-37B0-4449-B4E0->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I
> don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM
> drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher
> data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice
> the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:41 +0200
> From: François Chaplais <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I am very happy with a 7200 RPM drive. I do think it helps the system.
> Best
> François
> Le 24 juin 2011 à 15:18, Herbert Schulz a écrit :
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I
> don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM
> drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher
> data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice
> the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:00:55 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
>
> Ah the good old days!
>
> (Of the 128K)
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:06:01 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <9C9ACDD6-6FA3-4448-B892->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >
> > Ah the good old days!
> >
> > (Of the 128K)
> >
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:13:48 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> It will make a difference Herb, so I would recommend it. But you may also
> wish to consider increasing memory. These machines do not really exploit
> 64-bit architecture until you get to 8GB memory (that is what I have in my
> 13" MacBook Pro). Also, there are cheaper SSD alternatives -- I have one
> from OWC (http://tinyurl.com/64lbfsc) installed in mine -- they also have
> better write lifetime characteristics. They may still be over your planned
> budget, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.
>
> Best.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I
> don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM
> drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher
> data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice
> the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:36:44 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <0B64EECB-9B86-45FF-93E6->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Herb
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:13:48PM, Herb wrote:
> No, I can't afford an SSD!
>
> Do whatever you can to put a cheap SSD in the machine. It makes a HUGE
> difference. E.g. when booting, spinning cogwheel with hard drive: 20 secs,
> with SSD: 3 seconds.
>
> Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to keep
> your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money on an SSD for
> it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:55:53 -0500
> From: George Gratzer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <60AB788C-2C6B-4AA9-A786->
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Herb,
>
> May I recommend the 13" MacBook Air? The screen has the same resolution, so
> hold it an inch closer and it is of the same size!
>
> It is lighter and the SSD makes a huge difference. Incredibly speedy. A
> restart is measured is seconds. Makes a real difference.
>
> I grant you that the Pro has a faster processor, but it is hard to imagine
> how that would benefit you. Certainly not with TeX.
>
> My techi friends tell me to buy 8GB of RAM.
>
> On the road, the MacBook Air is easier on you. If you archive a lot of
> stuff, put it on an external drive.
>
> Good luck,
>
> George
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 8:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm considering getting a new 15" MacBook Pro with the i7 Quad Core. I
> don't run huge numbers of apps simultaneously so I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> The only question I have concerns my choice of the standard 750GB/5400RPM
> drive or to special order it with a 500GB/7200RPM drive. Will the higher
> data density make up for the extra latency in some way? Will I even notice
> the difference. No, I can't afford an SSD!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Herb Schulz
> > (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> > List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:57:45 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <77FEDB80-02AA-4B59-B74F->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
>
> > there are cheaper SSD alternatives
>
>
> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF
> output. (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording
> reaches the state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I am also considering to buy a MacBook Pro. I tend to prefer the
> faster 500 GB disk – and 8 GB of RAM. Half the disk could be cached!
> No swapping virtually needed. (And these 4 GB RAM don't cost that
> much. Two TV instead of restaurant dinners.)
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any
> direction.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:05:30 +0200
> From: Peter Dyballa <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <10509924-E87E-41F4-A23E->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:36 schrieb Ralph Martin:
>
> > Indeed, very seriously, it may be a significantly better option to
> > keep your old laptop (as long as 64 bit Intel) and spend the money
> > on an SSD for it, than to buy a new laptop again with an HD.
>
> The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for
> temporary storage that does not wear out like an SSD. That's the
> problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change (overwrite) a disk
> block a few thousand times. One TeX run can produce half a dozen files
> and use up a few dozens of disk blocks.
>
> --
> Greetings
>
> Pete
>
> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:33:08 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <1574B0B3-0C77-46C0-AF4A->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 3:57:45PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output.
> (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the
> state of almost no disk space left?)
>
> I had a no-TRIM SSD. It worked fine, even when over 95% full, and regularly
> overwiting GBs data. (It did "garbage collection" in its spare time).
> However slow it gets, I'd be very suprised if it is still not much much
> faster than an HD.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:20 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <496E3CF8-DE94-49F1-B023->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is
> more expensive).
>
> I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
> >
> > Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >
> >> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >
> >
> > This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output.
> (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the
> state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:39:39 +0100
> From: Ralph Martin <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <2502375A-7853-435D-ADAD->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2011, at 4:05:30PM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > The best option is to wait until a Mac or a disk hits the market that
> offers both: a fast storage device and an even faster device for temporary
> storage that does not wear out like an SSD.
> > That's the problem with today's SSD: they only allow to change
> (overwrite) a disk block a few thousand times.
>
>
> You are way, way off beam. The Intel X25-M, as an example, has a mean time
> before failure of 1.2 million hours (more than 100 years).
>
> There's a lot of FUD about SSDs. I've had SSD equipped Macs for several
> years now, and would never go back.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ralph
> --
> Prof. Ralph Martin Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5536
> Computer Science & Informatics Fax: +44(0)29 2087 4598
> Cardiff University Email: mailto:
> 5 The Parade, Roath WWW: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> Cardiff, CF24 3AA, UK VOIP: sip:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:30 -0400
> From: "M. Tamer Özsu" <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Sorry, that should be 6G version (not 6GB).
>
> ==Tamer
>
> On 2011-06-24, at 11:35 AM, M. Tamer Özsu wrote:
>
> > OWC has a 6GB version of the SSD that does support TRIM (although it is
> more expensive).
> >
> > I have no relationship with OWC other than being a happy customer.
> >
> > ==Tamer
> >
> > On 2011-06-24, at 10:57 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb M. Tamer Özsu:
> >>
> >>> there are cheaper SSD alternatives
> >>
> >>
> >> This might be true. And it might be also true that these don't support
> the TRIM command (which Lion will use) and finally make the OS search
> endlessly for some left-over blocks in disk to save the large PDF output.
> (Ever encountered when your set-top box with disk recording reaches the
> state of almost no disk space left?)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:47:18 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <37B65828-7D4D-47E7-86CA->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>
> >> Ah the good old days!
> >>
> >> (Of the 128K)
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
>
> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
> gym!
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:39:05 -0500
> From: Herbert Schulz <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>
> >>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>
> >>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> --schremmer
> >>
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >
> > Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to the
> gym!
> > Best regards
> > --schremmer
>
> Howdy,
>
> Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet unless
> you were at a large University).
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:16:39 -0400
> From: Alain Schremmer <>
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] New Laptop...
> To: TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List
> Message-ID: <207F4751-CBA4-46CE-8253->
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Alain Schremmer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think 4GB of RAM is fine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ah the good old days!
> >>>>
> >>>> (Of the 128K)
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> --schremmer
> >>>
> >>> Howdy,
> >>>
> >>> And the constant swapping of the floppies! :-P
> >>
> >> Yes, and that's how we got all that exercise. Now we got to go to
> >> the gym!
> >> Best regards
> >> --schremmer
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Oh, yes... and 300 baud modems with dial-up of BBSs (pre-internet
> > unless you were at a large University).
>
> Ever read "The Good Old Days--They Were Terrible!"?
>
> Best regards
> --schremmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------- Helpful Info --------------------------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>
>
>
> End of MacOSX-TeX Digest, Vol 44, Issue 17
> ******************************************
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>
>
>