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Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

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This is very similar to what was done at the first Judo Show World Cup in
Malta, 2 years ago. We had to become "Malta's Got Talent" judges to pick
the winner. Very clever stuff to do if you are training 6 days a week and
getting bored. My ageing body is having trouble with koshiki-no-kata.
Certainly parts of it could be useful. I need more time to evaluate it
though.

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: judolist- [mailto:judolist-] On
Behalf Of Gerald Lafon
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 1:43 PM
To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo Modern Judo
Subject: [JudoList] Is list dead?

Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

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Interesting -- and I think there are some good teaching tools there, especially in the first sequence. I sometimes have students practice a technique at half-speed, or one-third. My idea is that the only way to do a technique in super-slo-mo is to do it smoothly and with perfect balance. When you practice a thing smoothly and with perfect balance, speed comes naturally, without thinking about speed. If, on the other hand, you strive for speed, you get jerky, lose your balance, telegraph the technique, and may even have to resort to "terminal Judo".

Just raggin' you, Gerald; I know that's not what you mean by "terminal Judo" -- but I DID, for a long time, misunderstand what you were actually saying; though I continue to believe that it's better Judo to remain standing if the throw isn't sutemi-waza. Quite certainly it's better fighting, and I think it's better shiai too, and promotes improvement in technique.

Anyway, to me the things they do in this video look like good teaching/learning tools, which is what kata are supposed to be.

-- Carl
From: Gerald Lafon

Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
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On 5/30/2011 10:42 PM, Gerald Lafon wrote:
> Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
> _____________________________
> Gerald Lafon
> USMC, RVN 70-71
> Director, Judo America San Diego
> www.judoamerica.com
> www.betterjudo.com
> 858 578-7748
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JudoList mailing list
>
> http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
>
>
Or in the same vain this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXK6a7zI6s&NR=1

I enjoyed it as a demonstration of technique in a different format.
Kata, yes it definitely is. If it was used in kata competition it
would certainly be more entertaining ;-) Although with the same flaws
as most of the current kata competition. Sorry, my thinking of kata
is more in line with Draeger, kata should be real, with intent to do
real technique at speed, not the choreographed dance most of it has
turned into.

Mike

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Gerald - Kata and backward shaping?

--- On Mon, 5/30/11, Gerald Lafon <> wrote:

From: Gerald Lafon <>
Subject: [JudoList] Is list dead?
To: "Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo Modern Judo" <>
Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 11:42 PM

Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

_______________________________________________
JudoList mailing list

http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
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)
I enjoyed that

Richard Porro

-----Original Message-----
From: judolist- [mailto:judolist-] On
Behalf Of Carl Hayes
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:19 AM
To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo
Subject: Re: [JudoList] Is list dead?

Interesting -- and I think there are some good teaching tools there,
especially in the first sequence. I sometimes have students practice a
technique at half-speed, or one-third. My idea is that the only way to do a
technique in super-slo-mo is to do it smoothly and with perfect balance.
When you practice a thing smoothly and with perfect balance, speed comes
naturally, without thinking about speed. If, on the other hand, you strive
for speed, you get jerky, lose your balance, telegraph the technique, and
may even have to resort to "terminal Judo".

Just raggin' you, Gerald; I know that's not what you mean by "terminal Judo"
-- but I DID, for a long time, misunderstand what you were actually saying;
though I continue to believe that it's better Judo to remain standing if the
throw isn't sutemi-waza. Quite certainly it's better fighting, and I think
it's better shiai too, and promotes improvement in technique.

Anyway, to me the things they do in this video look like good
teaching/learning tools, which is what kata are supposed to be.

-- Carl
From: Gerald Lafon

Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
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http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com

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)

On May 31, 2011, at 12:00 PM, Richard Porro wrote:

> I enjoyed that
>
> Richard Porro

What did you enjoy? Carl raggin' on me or the video? :-)

_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

_______________________________________________
JudoList mailing list

http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
)
Maybe shouldn't reply since can't see video on iPhone, but here's fodder for talk: Ronald emphasizes technique & kata, directs students to sensei Leonard Carter , usja club nearby for competitor training. One day sensei carter commented that kata was making them too slow. Attendance dismal at ronald's judo classes since! His largest usja club now is primarily jujitsu! Maybe these mostly- military guys are going all-competition before they have solid background? Or, maybe a lot of them shipped out at about that time. What do you guys think about this? Is kata a hindrance to competing? I would expect that kata would give a competitor good instincts to react in competition. But, sensei Carter has trained a lot of successful competitors. More than one way to skin a cat?

Sent from my iPhone

On May 30, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Gerald Lafon <> wrote:

> Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
> _____________________________
> Gerald Lafon
> USMC, RVN 70-71
> Director, Judo America San Diego
> www.judoamerica.com
> www.betterjudo.com
> 858 578-7748
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JudoList mailing list
>
> http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
>

_______________________________________________
JudoList mailing list

http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
)
> Or in the same vain this.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXK6a7zI6s&NR=1
>
> I enjoyed it as a demonstration of technique in a different format. Kata, yes it definitely is. If it was used in kata competition it would certainly be more entertaining ;-) Although with the same flaws as most of the current kata competition. Sorry, my thinking of kata is more in line with Draeger, kata should be real, with intent to do real technique at speed, not the choreographed dance most of it has turned into.
>
> Mike

Thanks for sharing that video. A few comments.

These modern katas are crowd-pleasers and require a lot of athletic ability. Who needs tai chi when you can do Judo in slow mo? While these katas are used to attract people to Judo, they also convey some dynamic technical principles if you look at them with an open mind.

This is what a 7th and 6th dan should look like.
_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

_______________________________________________
JudoList mailing list

http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
)
Both

Richard Porro

-----Original Message-----
From: judolist- [mailto:judolist-] On
Behalf Of Gerald Lafon
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:11 PM
To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo
Subject: Re: [JudoList] Is list dead?

On May 31, 2011, at 12:00 PM, Richard Porro wrote:

> I enjoyed that
>
> Richard Porro

What did you enjoy? Carl raggin' on me or the video? :-)

_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

_______________________________________________
JudoList mailing list

http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com

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)
In stand up, I place a lot of emphasis on using tai sabaki - particularly the turn, as the way to generate force for the major throws. �I find that in getting students to do this 1) smoothly and 2) as a reaction they don't have to think about to perform, there is a a kind of optimal speed window for drilling it. �It needs to be slow enough for them to perform it well, but fast enough so that they can actually feel and have a sense of the torque the generate in the turn.
Another thing I try to teach is that its not always blinding flat out speed that is needed in randori - but right timing combined with efficient movement. �This latter is probably my prejudice since I am older and slower than the young guys who want to throw me :-) �so i can't depend on my blinding speed to save my bacon.
Jon

--- On Tue, 5/31/11, cheryl frances ellis <> wrote:

From: cheryl frances ellis <>
Subject: Re: [JudoList] Is list dead?
To: "Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo" <>
Cc: "Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo Modern Judo" <>
Date: Tuesday, May 31, 2011, 3:14 PM

Maybe shouldn't reply since can't see video on iPhone, but here's fodder for talk: Ronald emphasizes technique & kata, directs students to sensei Leonard Carter , usja club nearby for competitor training. One day sensei carter commented that kata was making them too slow. Attendance dismal at ronald's judo classes since! His largest usja club now is primarily jujitsu! Maybe these mostly- military guys are going all-competition before they have solid background? Or, maybe a lot of them shipped out at about that time. What do you guys think about this? Is kata a hindrance to competing? I would expect that kata would give a competitor good instincts to react in competition. But, sensei Carter has trained a lot of successful competitors. More than one way to skin a cat?

Sent from my iPhone

On May 30, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Gerald Lafon <> wrote:

> Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
> _____________________________
> Gerald Lafon
> USMC, RVN 70-71
> Director, Judo America San Diego
> www.judoamerica.com
> www.betterjudo.com
> 858 578-7748
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JudoList mailing list
>
> http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
>

_______________________________________________
JudoList mailing list

http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
_______________________________________________
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)
On 5/31/2011 2:25 PM, Gerald Lafon wrote:
>> Or in the same vain this.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXK6a7zI6s&NR=1
>>
>> I enjoyed it as a demonstration of technique in a different format. Kata, yes it definitely is. If it was used in kata competition it would certainly be more entertaining ;-) Although with the same flaws as most of the current kata competition. Sorry, my thinking of kata is more in line with Draeger, kata should be real, with intent to do real technique at speed, not the choreographed dance most of it has turned into.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Thanks for sharing that video. A few comments.
>
> These modern katas are crowd-pleasers and require a lot of athletic ability. Who needs tai chi when you can do Judo in slow mo? While these katas are used to attract people to Judo, they also convey some dynamic technical principles if you look at them with an open mind.
>
> This is what a 7th and 6th dan should look like.
> _____________________________
> Gerald Lafon
> USMC, RVN 70-71
> Director, Judo America San Diego
> www.judoamerica.com
> www.betterjudo.com
> 858 578-7748
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JudoList mailing list
>
> http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
>
>
Agreed. They require a great deal of control, athletic ability, and
technical competence. Very enjoyable to watch and undoubtedly would be
a crowd pleaser.

mike

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I have to admit that I was struck by the appearance of red/white striped
belts being worn by trim, athletic, middle-aged men who look like they could
probably win a major competition. I know I'll never make that category; I'm
not shamed by that fact, I just thought it stood out compared to some of the
same ranks one sees commonly here in the US.

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Gerald Lafon <>wrote:

> > Or in the same vain this.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JXK6a7zI6s&NR=1
> >
> > I enjoyed it as a demonstration of technique in a different format.
> Kata, yes it definitely is. If it was used in kata competition it would
> certainly be more entertaining ;-) Although with the same flaws as most
> of the current kata competition. Sorry, my thinking of kata is more in
> line with Draeger, kata should be real, with intent to do real technique at
> speed, not the choreographed dance most of it has turned into.
> >
> > Mike
>
>
> Thanks for sharing that video. A few comments.
>
> These modern katas are crowd-pleasers and require a lot of athletic
> ability. Who needs tai chi when you can do Judo in slow mo? While these
> katas are used to attract people to Judo, they also convey some dynamic
> technical principles if you look at them with an open mind.
>
> This is what a 7th and 6th dan should look like.
> _____________________________
> Gerald Lafon
> USMC, RVN 70-71
> Director, Judo America San Diego
> www.judoamerica.com
> www.betterjudo.com
> 858 578-7748
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JudoList mailing list
>
> http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
>

--
Craig Engel

***
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart
you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. ~Richard P.
Feynman
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On May 31, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Jonathan Jeffer wrote:

> Gerald - Kata and backward shaping?

Actually, kata, backward and forward shaping. Winner!!!!

_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

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http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
)
I believe Kata is important to understand the principles of Judo, and
it's slow action emphasizes the technique. Speed and power
becomes automatic when the mind-muscle interaction (mushin) is
attained. So kata and shiai should be practised in parallel. One
needs the other.

Ben Bergwerf

At 03:14 PM 5/31/2011 -0400, you wrote:
>Maybe shouldn't reply since can't see video on iPhone, but here's
>fodder for talk: Ronald emphasizes technique & kata, directs
>students to sensei Leonard Carter , usja club nearby for competitor
>training. One day sensei carter commented that kata was making them
>too slow. Attendance dismal at ronald's judo classes since! His
>largest usja club now is primarily jujitsu! Maybe these mostly-
>military guys are going all-competition before they have solid
>background? Or, maybe a lot of them shipped out at about that time.
>What do you guys think about this? Is kata a hindrance to competing?
>I would expect that kata would give a competitor good instincts to
>react in competition. But, sensei Carter has trained a lot of
>successful competitors. More than one way to skin a cat?
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On May 30, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Gerald Lafon <> wrote:
>
> > Time to wake up. Let's talk about kata...after you watch this:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2CPgywwQQI
> > _____________________________
> > Gerald Lafon
> > USMC, RVN 70-71
> > Director, Judo America San Diego
> > www.judoamerica.com
> > www.betterjudo.com
> > 858 578-7748
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > JudoList mailing list
> >
> > http://chas-ma.com/mailman/listinfo/judolist_chas-ma.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
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On May 31, 2011, at 12:14 PM, cheryl frances ellis wrote:

> Maybe shouldn't reply since can't see video on iPhone, but here's fodder for talk: Ronald emphasizes technique & kata, directs students to sensei Leonard Carter , usja club nearby for competitor training. One day sensei carter commented that kata was making them too slow. Attendance dismal at ronald's judo classes since! His largest usja club now is primarily jujitsu! Maybe these mostly- military guys are going all-competition before they have solid background? Or, maybe a lot of them shipped out at about that time. What do you guys think about this? Is kata a hindrance to competing? I would expect that kata would give a competitor good instincts to react in competition. But, sensei Carter has trained a lot of successful competitors. More than one way to skin a cat?

This problem relates to the principle of specificity of training. How can one prepare for the chaos of competition and the technical, tactical, and physiological demands of competition, by doing slow, prearranged series of techniques that have no relationship with the give and take of competition?

_____________________________
Gerald Lafon
USMC, RVN 70-71
Director, Judo America San Diego
www.judoamerica.com
www.betterjudo.com
858 578-7748

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