Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a „Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice”. It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution – communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that „The way of the Church is the way of the Man”.+++(endre simó)30th April 2011

Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a „Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice”. It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution – communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that „The way of the Church is the way of the Man”.+++(endre simó)30th April 2011

Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre

Nina Sankari <> írta:
>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>
>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>
>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Simó Endre <>
>Date: 2011/4/30
>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>
>
>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>

Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a „Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice”. It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution – communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that „The way of the Church is the way of the Man”.+++(endre simó)30th April 2011

Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre

Nina Sankari <> írta:
>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>
>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>
>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Simó Endre <>
>Date: 2011/4/30
>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>
>
>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>


Does this mean, that Feminists refuse the Right to Livelihood, or the principle that Humanity's future should be a Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice? Why should we refuse correct ideas while we fight for just Rights? All or nothing? People not with us is people against us? What kind of future is offering your proposed principle of "my way is the only way"?Endre

lilian halls-french <> írta:
>


In these times of increasing intrusion of religions in our lives , of increasing oppression of churches against our rights and freedom all over Europe , we can only bring our support to the statement of our polish friends who are among the first to face this oppression in their country.We are sharing their atonishment and join their call to the feminist but also to all the democrats and secular activists to say "NO their is no 'common building for a common future' with us on the expenses of women's human rights " lilian halls french european feminist initiative (IFE-EFI)
>----- Original Message -----From: Simó EndreTo: Nina SankariCc: esfeast ; fse-: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:07 AMSubject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre
>
>Nina Sankari <> írta:

>>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>>
>>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>>
>>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>From: Simó Endre <>
>>Date: 2011/4/30
>>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>>
>>
>>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>>_______________________________________________
>>FSE-ESF mailing list
>>FSE-
>>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>>

>
>
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf

Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a „Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice”. It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution – communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that „The way of the Church is the way of the Man”.+++(endre simó)30th April 2011

Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre

Nina Sankari <> írta:
>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>
>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>
>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Simó Endre <>
>Date: 2011/4/30
>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>
>
>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>


Does this mean, that Feminists refuse the Right to Livelihood, or the principle that Humanity's future should be a Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice? Why should we refuse correct ideas while we fight for just Rights? All or nothing? People not with us is people against us? What kind of future is offering your proposed principle of "my way is the only way"?Endre

lilian halls-french <> írta:
>


In these times of increasing intrusion of religions in our lives , of increasing oppression of churches against our rights and freedom all over Europe , we can only bring our support to the statement of our polish friends who are among the first to face this oppression in their country.We are sharing their atonishment and join their call to the feminist but also to all the democrats and secular activists to say "NO their is no 'common building for a common future' with us on the expenses of women's human rights " lilian halls french european feminist initiative (IFE-EFI)
>----- Original Message -----From: Simó EndreTo: Nina SankariCc: esfeast ; fse-: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:07 AMSubject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre
>
>Nina Sankari <> írta:

>>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>>
>>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>>
>>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>From: Simó Endre <>
>>Date: 2011/4/30
>>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>>
>>
>>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>>_______________________________________________
>>FSE-ESF mailing list
>>FSE-
>>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>>

>
>
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf


The separation of Church and state is a long standing principle of the
modern times, after the French Revolution, despite the fact that it has
never developed in its totality. More than this, the women are always second
class citizens according to any religion, much more that the concrete Pope
was against the rights of women to the autonomy of their bodies. Therefore,
anyone who believes in religion may have his/her participation in the joy
for beatification, as they may see it, but any social forum should stand
against the involvement of the forum in religious processes, even by a
simple announcement. Don't forget that, apart from atheists, in the forum
participate people of other religions, so it could be an offense to non
christians or non-catholic christians if any social forum is connected with
such actions as beatification. At times of course we collaborate with
christian NGO's, on concrete matters of social justice, but we cannot as a
forum be involved with the religious processes like beatification or other
anachronistic ceremonies or prizes.
**** Vovou
Social Forum - Greece
World March of Women, Greek Network

-----Original Message-----
From: fse-esf-
[mailto:fse-esf-]On Behalf Of Simó Endre
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:40 AM
To: lilian halls-french
Cc: Nina Sankari; esfeast; fse-
Subject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR


Does this mean, that Feminists refuse the Right to Livelihood, or the
principle that Humanity's future should be a Democratic Society imbued with
Social Justice? Why should we refuse correct ideas while we fight for just
Rights? All or nothing? People not with us is people against us? What kind
of future is offering your proposed principle of "my way is the only way"?
Endre

lilian halls-french <> írta:

In these times of increasing intrusion of religions in our lives , of
increasing oppression of churches against our rights and freedom all over
Europe , we can only bring our support to the statement of our polish
friends who are among the first to face this oppression in their country.We
are sharing their atonishment and join their call to the feminist but
also to all the democrats and secular activists to say
"NO their is no 'common building for a common future' with us on the
expenses of women's human rights "

lilian halls french
european feminist initiative (IFE-EFI)
----- Original Message -----
From: Simó Endre
To: Nina Sankari
Cc: esfeast ; fse-
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR

Common future means common building with people not of my mind...
endre

Nina Sankari <> írta:
To Hungarian Social Forum SR


We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF
SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree
with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not
accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this
shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working
class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers
Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.


This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working
class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern
Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the
so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is
pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed
to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The
way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been
discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough
fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their
fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The
way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends
and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the
subject.

European Feminist Initiative in Poland






---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Simó Endre <>
Date: 2011/4/30
Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
To: fse-, esfeast <>



Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II


In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social
Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a
Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued
with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol
Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority
of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign
existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and
his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six
years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and
Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem
of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of
the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of
John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to
the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be
subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of
the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the
memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism,
that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that
"The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++
(endre simó)
30th April 2011


_______________________________________________
FSE-ESF mailing list
FSE-
http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf




----------------------------------------------------------------------------



_______________________________________________
FSE-ESF mailing list
FSE-
http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf

Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a „Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice”. It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution – communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that „The way of the Church is the way of the Man”.+++(endre simó)30th April 2011

Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre

Nina Sankari <> írta:
>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>
>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>
>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Simó Endre <>
>Date: 2011/4/30
>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>
>
>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>


Does this mean, that Feminists refuse the Right to Livelihood, or the principle that Humanity's future should be a Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice? Why should we refuse correct ideas while we fight for just Rights? All or nothing? People not with us is people against us? What kind of future is offering your proposed principle of "my way is the only way"?Endre

lilian halls-french <> írta:
>


In these times of increasing intrusion of religions in our lives , of increasing oppression of churches against our rights and freedom all over Europe , we can only bring our support to the statement of our polish friends who are among the first to face this oppression in their country.We are sharing their atonishment and join their call to the feminist but also to all the democrats and secular activists to say "NO their is no 'common building for a common future' with us on the expenses of women's human rights " lilian halls french european feminist initiative (IFE-EFI)
>----- Original Message -----From: Simó EndreTo: Nina SankariCc: esfeast ; fse-: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:07 AMSubject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre
>
>Nina Sankari <> írta:

>>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>>
>>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>>
>>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>From: Simó Endre <>
>>Date: 2011/4/30
>>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>>
>>
>>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>>_______________________________________________
>>FSE-ESF mailing list
>>FSE-
>>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>>

>
>
>_______________________________________________
>FSE-ESF mailing list
>FSE-
>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf


The separation of Church and state is a long standing principle of the
modern times, after the French Revolution, despite the fact that it has
never developed in its totality. More than this, the women are always second
class citizens according to any religion, much more that the concrete Pope
was against the rights of women to the autonomy of their bodies. Therefore,
anyone who believes in religion may have his/her participation in the joy
for beatification, as they may see it, but any social forum should stand
against the involvement of the forum in religious processes, even by a
simple announcement. Don't forget that, apart from atheists, in the forum
participate people of other religions, so it could be an offense to non
christians or non-catholic christians if any social forum is connected with
such actions as beatification. At times of course we collaborate with
christian NGO's, on concrete matters of social justice, but we cannot as a
forum be involved with the religious processes like beatification or other
anachronistic ceremonies or prizes.
**** Vovou
Social Forum - Greece
World March of Women, Greek Network

-----Original Message-----
From: fse-esf-
[mailto:fse-esf-]On Behalf Of Simó Endre
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:40 AM
To: lilian halls-french
Cc: Nina Sankari; esfeast; fse-
Subject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR


Does this mean, that Feminists refuse the Right to Livelihood, or the
principle that Humanity's future should be a Democratic Society imbued with
Social Justice? Why should we refuse correct ideas while we fight for just
Rights? All or nothing? People not with us is people against us? What kind
of future is offering your proposed principle of "my way is the only way"?
Endre

lilian halls-french <> írta:

In these times of increasing intrusion of religions in our lives , of
increasing oppression of churches against our rights and freedom all over
Europe , we can only bring our support to the statement of our polish
friends who are among the first to face this oppression in their country.We
are sharing their atonishment and join their call to the feminist but
also to all the democrats and secular activists to say
"NO their is no 'common building for a common future' with us on the
expenses of women's human rights "

lilian halls french
european feminist initiative (IFE-EFI)
----- Original Message -----
From: Simó Endre
To: Nina Sankari
Cc: esfeast ; fse-
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR

Common future means common building with people not of my mind...
endre

Nina Sankari <> írta:
To Hungarian Social Forum SR


We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF
SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree
with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not
accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this
shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working
class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers
Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.


This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working
class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern
Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the
so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is
pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed
to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The
way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been
discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough
fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their
fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The
way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends
and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the
subject.

European Feminist Initiative in Poland






---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Simó Endre <>
Date: 2011/4/30
Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
To: fse-, esfeast <>



Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II


In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social
Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a
Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued
with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol
Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority
of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign
existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and
his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six
years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and
Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem
of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of
the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of
John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to
the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be
subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of
the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the
memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism,
that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that
"The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++
(endre simó)
30th April 2011


_______________________________________________
FSE-ESF mailing list
FSE-
http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf




----------------------------------------------------------------------------



_______________________________________________
FSE-ESF mailing list
FSE-
http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf


Why do you consider, that Livelihood - the major problem of our country, and not only the ours - is not a "concret matter of social justice" (and more) - as you have written? If it is, why should we refuse correct analysis and indications of people not of your ideology, but interested like as us to implement the social justice. ESF became unsignificant just because its incapacity to understand, that there are many ways to the common future, and these ways are seeking for common understanding, ****.Endre

**** vovou <> írta:
>


The separation of Church and state is a long standing principle of the modern times, after the French Revolution, despite the fact that it has never developed in its totality. More than this, the women are always second class citizens according to any religion, much more that the concrete Pope was against the rights of women to the autonomy of their bodies. Therefore, anyone who believes in religion may have his/her participation in the joy for beatification, as they may see it, but any social forum should stand against the involvement of the forum in religious processes, even by a simple announcement. Don't forget that, apart from atheists, in the forum participate people of other religions, so it could be an offense to non christians or non-catholic christians if any social forum is connected with such actions as beatification. At times of course we collaborate with christian NGO's, on concrete matters of social justice, but we cannot as a forum be involved with the religious processes like beatification or other anachronistic ceremonies or prizes.**** VovouSocial Forum - GreeceWorld March of Women, Greek Network
>-----Original Message-----
>From: fse-esf- [mailto:fse-esf-]On Behalf Of Simó Endre
>Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:40 AM
>To: lilian halls-french
>Cc: Nina Sankari; esfeast; fse-
>Subject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>
>Does this mean, that Feminists refuse the Right to Livelihood, or the principle that Humanity's future should be a Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice? Why should we refuse correct ideas while we fight for just Rights? All or nothing? People not with us is people against us? What kind of future is offering your proposed principle of "my way is the only way"?Endre
>
>lilian halls-french <> írta:

>>





>In these times of increasing intrusion of religions in our lives , of increasing oppression of churches against our rights and freedom all over Europe , we can only bring our support to the statement of our polish friends who are among the first to face this oppression in their country.We are sharing their atonishment and join their call to the feminist but also to all the democrats and secular activists to say "NO their is no 'common building for a common future' with us on the expenses of women's human rights " lilian halls french european feminist initiative (IFE-EFI)

>>----- Original Message -----From: Simó EndreTo: Nina SankariCc: esfeast ; fse-: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:07 AMSubject: Re: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR Common future means common building with people not of my mind...endre
>>
>>Nina Sankari <> írta:

>>>To Hungarian Social Forum SR
>>>
>>>We would like to express our astonishment at the statement of the HSF SR on the beatification of John Paul II. While it is difficult not to agree with your opinion that the choice of the date for this ceremony is not accidental, our assessment of this fact is quite different. We think this shows the will of the Church to appropriate the control over the working class movement and to destroy the tradition of the International Workers Day, commemorating the massacre of the workers in Chicago in 1886.
>>>
>>>This same Church, who participated in the oppression of the working class as well in Hungary as in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe before the World War II, and who benefited the most from the so-called democratic transition in the post-communist countries, now is pretending to defend the interests of the workers. We are very disappointed to find that the Hungarian Social Forum SR is supportive of the slogan "The way of the Church is the way of the Man" . Women, who have been discriminated by the Church for centuries, gained their rights in a tough fight. Now, under political pressure of the Church, they are losing their fundamental rights, i.e. the right of woman to dispose of her own body. The way of Church is not the way of Woman. We will invite our feminist friends and partners in the feminist struggle to express their opinion on the subject.
>>>European Feminist Initiative in Poland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>From: Simó Endre <>
>>>Date: 2011/4/30
>>>Subject: [fse-esf] Beatification of Joh Paul II - HSF-SR
>>>To: fse-, esfeast <>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hungarian Social Forum SR over the beatification of John Paul II In a Press Release published on Saturday the Hungarian Social Forum-Social Roundtable has told that with John Paul II will be beatified a Pope who has indicated the Humanity future in a "Democratic Society imbued with Social Justice". It is symbolic, that the beatification of Karol Wojtyla happens on the Workers feast. In fact he has emphesized the priority of the Job over the Capital, considering the last a tool for the dign existence. The Wage must be sufficient to assure the life of the Worker and his Family, and also to grant them economy. The voice of the Pope died six years ago has been cried in the wilderness in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe, so in Hungary, where the livelihood is an every day problem of 6 millions on ten, and the Right to Job has been omitted from the text of the new Constitution - communique is writing. HSF SR cites some ideas of John Paul II from Centesimus Annus, ragarding the State Responsilbility to the working majority of the Societies, the Social Needs which cannot be subordonned to the market logic, the exploitation, and the social limits of the private ownership. Finally it tells: HSF SR remains respectfully to the memory of this man, who has preached after the collapse of real socialism, that neither capitalism would resolve the problems of Human kind, and that "The way of the Church is the way of the Man".+++(endre simó)30th April 2011
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>FSE-ESF mailing list
>>>FSE-
>>>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
>>>

>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>FSE-ESF mailing list
>>FSE-
>>http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf