Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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-
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



--
-
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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-
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



--
-
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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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)

On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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)
On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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)
On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

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Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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)
On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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)

On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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)

Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
_______________________________________________
freebsd- mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__________________________________________________________________

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)

Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
)
On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

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Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

--

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-- OK Go

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Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
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jerry+

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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On 04/26/2011 15:09, Charlie Kester wrote:
> Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
> all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
> where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
> bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)

As a matter of curiosity, sure, put it on a web site somewhere, no worries.

Meanwhile, I think you might be missing the point. :) We should not be
looking for reasons to save unmaintained ports. We should be providing
resources for those that would like to adopt them, pointing users to
suitable alternatives, marking them deprecated so as to encourage
maintainers to come forward, etc. In other words, exactly what we have
been doing.

Yes, there will likely be a period after the ports actually disappear
where some of them will need to be resurrected because someone will
finally be motivated to step forward. But that's easily done. Meanwhile,
let's nuke as much as we can, as fast as we can. We're rapidly closing
in on 23,000 ports, which is already an unmanageable mess. We need to be
able to delete the cruft if we have any hope of keeping the ship afloat.


Doug

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Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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On 04/26/2011 15:09, Charlie Kester wrote:
> Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
> all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
> where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
> bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)

As a matter of curiosity, sure, put it on a web site somewhere, no worries.

Meanwhile, I think you might be missing the point. :) We should not be
looking for reasons to save unmaintained ports. We should be providing
resources for those that would like to adopt them, pointing users to
suitable alternatives, marking them deprecated so as to encourage
maintainers to come forward, etc. In other words, exactly what we have
been doing.

Yes, there will likely be a period after the ports actually disappear
where some of them will need to be resurrected because someone will
finally be motivated to step forward. But that's easily done. Meanwhile,
let's nuke as much as we can, as fast as we can. We're rapidly closing
in on 23,000 ports, which is already an unmanageable mess. We need to be
able to delete the cruft if we have any hope of keeping the ship afloat.


Doug

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On 4/25/11 8:28 PM, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports

Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
"FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
and
"FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"

show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
on how that is handled now.

Where is the current list of deprecated ports?

--
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Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or

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Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

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Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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On 04/26/2011 15:09, Charlie Kester wrote:
> Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
> all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
> where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
> bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)

As a matter of curiosity, sure, put it on a web site somewhere, no worries.

Meanwhile, I think you might be missing the point. :) We should not be
looking for reasons to save unmaintained ports. We should be providing
resources for those that would like to adopt them, pointing users to
suitable alternatives, marking them deprecated so as to encourage
maintainers to come forward, etc. In other words, exactly what we have
been doing.

Yes, there will likely be a period after the ports actually disappear
where some of them will need to be resurrected because someone will
finally be motivated to step forward. But that's easily done. Meanwhile,
let's nuke as much as we can, as fast as we can. We're rapidly closing
in on 23,000 ports, which is already an unmanageable mess. We need to be
able to delete the cruft if we have any hope of keeping the ship afloat.


Doug

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On 4/25/11 8:28 PM, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports

Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
"FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
and
"FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"

show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
on how that is handled now.

Where is the current list of deprecated ports?

--
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Senior Systems Programmer or
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or

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Garance A Drosehn writes:

> Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> and
> "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
>
> show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> on how that is handled now.

I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".


Robert Huff

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Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
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Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
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jerry+

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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On 04/26/2011 15:09, Charlie Kester wrote:
> Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
> all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
> where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
> bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)

As a matter of curiosity, sure, put it on a web site somewhere, no worries.

Meanwhile, I think you might be missing the point. :) We should not be
looking for reasons to save unmaintained ports. We should be providing
resources for those that would like to adopt them, pointing users to
suitable alternatives, marking them deprecated so as to encourage
maintainers to come forward, etc. In other words, exactly what we have
been doing.

Yes, there will likely be a period after the ports actually disappear
where some of them will need to be resurrected because someone will
finally be motivated to step forward. But that's easily done. Meanwhile,
let's nuke as much as we can, as fast as we can. We're rapidly closing
in on 23,000 ports, which is already an unmanageable mess. We need to be
able to delete the cruft if we have any hope of keeping the ship afloat.


Doug

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On 4/25/11 8:28 PM, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports

Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
"FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
and
"FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"

show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
on how that is handled now.

Where is the current list of deprecated ports?

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Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or

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Garance A Drosehn writes:

> Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> and
> "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
>
> show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> on how that is handled now.

I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".


Robert Huff

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On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Robert Huff <> wrote:

>
> Garance A Drosehn writes:
>
> > Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> > "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> > and
> > "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
> >
> > show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> > for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> > on how that is handled now.
>
> I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".
>

Last one I have is from Jan 21, prior to that it was twice monthly.

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Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

--

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd- mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

--
Regards,
Ruslan
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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

--
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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
Jerry ✌
jerry+

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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On 04/26/2011 15:09, Charlie Kester wrote:
> Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
> all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
> where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
> bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)

As a matter of curiosity, sure, put it on a web site somewhere, no worries.

Meanwhile, I think you might be missing the point. :) We should not be
looking for reasons to save unmaintained ports. We should be providing
resources for those that would like to adopt them, pointing users to
suitable alternatives, marking them deprecated so as to encourage
maintainers to come forward, etc. In other words, exactly what we have
been doing.

Yes, there will likely be a period after the ports actually disappear
where some of them will need to be resurrected because someone will
finally be motivated to step forward. But that's easily done. Meanwhile,
let's nuke as much as we can, as fast as we can. We're rapidly closing
in on 23,000 ports, which is already an unmanageable mess. We need to be
able to delete the cruft if we have any hope of keeping the ship afloat.


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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On 4/25/11 8:28 PM, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports

Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
"FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
and
"FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"

show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
on how that is handled now.

Where is the current list of deprecated ports?

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn =
Senior Systems Programmer or
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or

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Garance A Drosehn writes:

> Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> and
> "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
>
> show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> on how that is handled now.

I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".


Robert Huff

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On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Robert Huff <> wrote:

>
> Garance A Drosehn writes:
>
> > Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> > "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> > and
> > "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
> >
> > show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> > for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> > on how that is handled now.
>
> I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".
>

Last one I have is from Jan 21, prior to that it was twice monthly.

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Ok,
I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
over their maintenance to save them from death:
graphics/gimp-greycstoration
misc/wmweather
sysutils/wmmemmon
All of them have already distfiles mirrored on FreeBSD's FTP.
M.

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On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
> over their maintenance to save them from death:

Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where
the distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty
good sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the
distfile issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's
for pointyhat runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors),
etc. They also consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes
in the OS, etc. What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that
are no longer useful.

You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced
by different alternatives.

> misc/wmweather

Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.

> sysutils/wmmemmon

There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one
does not seem that special. :)

As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about
it, but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do
would be to provide resources to host its distfile(s).


Doug

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On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Doug Barton <> wrote:
> On 04/25/2011 17:28, martinko wrote:
>>
>> Ok,
>> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the
>> following that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take
>> over their maintenance to save them from death:
>
> Generally by the time that a port has deteriorated to the point where the
> distfiles are gone, and it has no maintainer, it's usually a pretty good
> sign that it's time to move on. This isn't just because of the distfile
> issue. Every port in the tree consumes resources, whether it's for pointyhat
> runs, space on the package sites (including the mirrors), etc. They also
> consume time to deal with when they get broken by changes in the OS, etc.
> What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
> useful.
>
> You might want to consider whether or not some of these can be replaced by
> different alternatives.
>
>> misc/wmweather
>
> Give misc/wmweather+ a try. It's actively developed and maintained.
>
>> sysutils/wmmemmon
>
> There are a million other dockapps that do similar jobs, and this one does
> not seem that special. :)
>
> As for the gimp thing that you mentioned, I don't know anything about it,

http://registry.gimp.org/node/137

"GREYCstoration has been discontinued, and is now replaced by the
G'MIC project, which contains all the former GREYCstoration features,
but also much much much more !"

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml (G'MIC project)

Cheers,
Mezz


> but if you wish to become its maintainer the polite thing to do would be to
> provide resources to host its distfile(s).
>
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>        Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
>                        -- OK Go
>
>        Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
>        Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-"
>



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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:
>What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
>useful.

If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list. Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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26.04.2011 04:28, martinko пишет:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports and I identifed the following
> that I may be using or at least used in past and I could take over their
> maintenance to save them from death:
> graphics/gimp-greycstoration

Use graphics/gimp-gmic-plugin instead.
Please see http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/154596 for details.

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On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
> osx.iusethis.com?

"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

This may come as a shock to folks, but FreeBSD in general is in fact not democratic. It's based around the concept of folks putting in their own time to keep a part of the Project alive.

Whether it's a device driver, some chunk of base userland, ports//, or support for an entire architecture and/or release of FreeBSD -- doesn't matter. Without at least a modicum of active maintainership (hint: MAINTAINER= is _not_ active) then it will eventually fall by the wayside and die.

For ports, there's a non-zero cost associated with each and every single one in the tree. Directly, in terms of clusters trying to build packages for the combination of supported releases and architectures, and indirectly, in case of infrastructural changes affecting chunks of the tree, when it comes to determining whether port breakage is a result of said changes, or whether it was broken already.

Generally speaking, such "dead" ports are marked DEPRECATED with a sizable amount of time before being reaped. Honestly, I'd personally prefer the variable to be named PUT_UP_OR_SHUT_UP (but that's just me). The fact remains though, that that is _exactly_ what it is. If, in the period between a port being marked DEPRECATED and it being removed from the tree, and especially in the case of UNMAINTANED=YES (that'd be for those in the back), no-one steps up to (a) fix the problem, (b) take maintainership and (c) _continue_ with maintainership.

Well, in that case, the port does not _deserve_ to live. After all, no-one cares about it. If they did, they'd take care of (a) thru (c) above.

-aDe

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On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:
>
>On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:
>> Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
>> osx.iusethis.com?
>
>"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.

I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do. And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system. I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:34:24 -0700
Charlie Kester <> articulated:

> It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
> will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
> being.

If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.

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Chip Camden writes:

> > If you want to definitively ascertain the popularity of an application,
> > just remove it from the ports structure and see how many users complain.
>
> There could be quite a delay in that reaction -- it might not hit
> home until the port needs to be rebuilt.

It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.


Robert Huff



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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>
>>I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
>>sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
>>take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
>>check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
>>It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
>>will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
>>being.
>
>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:
>
>popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)
>
>where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
>clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
>subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.
>
>vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)
>
>"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
>number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
>the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
>announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
>come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
>that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."
>
>For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
>well-known projects:
>
>Name Popularity Vitality
>
>mplayer 3,995.20 45.16
>
>MySQL 3,310.55 73.39
>
>mutt 1,032.71 42.53
>
>conky 173.67 3.60
>
>exaile 64.48 3.75
>
>In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
>are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.
>
>I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
>as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
>positives in the data.

Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.

Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the port. :)

FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a way
to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...


Doug

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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:
>>FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
>>unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.
>
>Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment. If anyone wants to see
>it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.

Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name" "popularity" "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12 120.91
"sg3_utils" 444.46 41.9
"LPRng" 303.65 5.13
"afio" 292.62 2.44
"anteater" 237.11 4.26
"bchunk" 215.97 2.71
"userinfo" 211.26 23.51
"ddrescue" 210.72 8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73 1
"cw" 207.28 11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:54:05 -0700
Doug Barton <> articulated:

> On 04/26/2011 14:18, Robert Huff wrote:
> > It is also possible it is only important to a fairly small
> > number ... but to those it is absolutely crucial.
>
> Fair enough, then one of them needs to step forward to maintain the
> port. :)
>
> FWIW, I think that the person who suggested deleting the port as a
> way to gain a metric of its popularity was joking ...

Sorry, but I was dead serious.

"Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)"

"Cinderella"

If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.

--
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On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:
>
>If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
>the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
>responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
>that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
>make a lot of sense.

No disagreement here. Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=. That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them. Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need. But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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On 04/26/2011 15:09, Charlie Kester wrote:
> Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
> all unmaintained ports regardless of category. Any suggestions for
> where I should post the results? (That is, unless you think the
> bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)

As a matter of curiosity, sure, put it on a web site somewhere, no worries.

Meanwhile, I think you might be missing the point. :) We should not be
looking for reasons to save unmaintained ports. We should be providing
resources for those that would like to adopt them, pointing users to
suitable alternatives, marking them deprecated so as to encourage
maintainers to come forward, etc. In other words, exactly what we have
been doing.

Yes, there will likely be a period after the ports actually disappear
where some of them will need to be resurrected because someone will
finally be motivated to step forward. But that's easily done. Meanwhile,
let's nuke as much as we can, as fast as we can. We're rapidly closing
in on 23,000 ports, which is already an unmanageable mess. We need to be
able to delete the cruft if we have any hope of keeping the ship afloat.


Doug

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On 4/25/11 8:28 PM, martinko wrote:
> Ok,
> I skimmed through the list of deprecated ports

Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
"FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
and
"FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"

show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
on how that is handled now.

Where is the current list of deprecated ports?

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Garance A Drosehn writes:

> Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> and
> "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
>
> show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> on how that is handled now.

I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".


Robert Huff

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On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Robert Huff <> wrote:

>
> Garance A Drosehn writes:
>
> > Speaking of which, I haven't noticed the old lists of
> > "FreeBSD unmaintained ports which are currently marked broken"
> > and
> > "FreeBSD ports which are currently scheduled for deletion"
> >
> > show up recently. I did have some mixup in my email account
> > for a short period, so I assume I just missed an announcement
> > on how that is handled now.
>
> I get regular e-mails for "marked as broken".
>

Last one I have is from Jan 21, prior to that it was twice monthly.

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these periodic emails again.

mcl
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> Where is the current list of deprecated ports?
>

You can find the deprecated ones here
http://www.freshports.org/ports-deprecated.php
and the one set to expire there :
http://www.freshports.org/ports-expiration-date.php


regards,
Bapt
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