Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, John Posada <> wrote:

>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
>
That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
from which to choose one. Like you said, you don't care whether the builder
wants to go through the hassle of building three distinct houses, or just
show you samples from the past.

When applied to design, this is equivalent to reviewing an artist's
portfolio to determine whether you like their natural design instinct, or if
you think it will take too much work to convey what you think you want.


> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
>
This works at the beginning, but then once you invest in the plan, you find
that the plan will need to be modified because:
a) it won't work completely as designed due to imposed constraints such as
location, policies, etc.
b) it doesn't include all the features you want
c) it includes features that you have no use for

When applied to design, this method is more like importing a template or
theme and then performing necessary customizations yourself. There are tons
of business card templates out there. And clipart for logos is cheap. If a
person wants a full branding strategy, a graphic designer can help work
through the process of conveying the client's message as accurately and
succinctly as possible, then working out different versions of the logo to
demonstrate that branding strategy throughout all the materials: print,
online, automobile, etc. Quote from the blog post:

"As the client, you should know that your designer values your business.
They’re not providing you with a design based purely on aesthetics, and one
that took perhaps 30 minutes to create. They’re looking deep into your
business plan, your company mission, your background, your way of dealing
with people, and many other aspects your brand."

Regarding Richard Querin's comment:
"Finally, the question of whether amateurs should be doing the work of
professionals is popping up in more and more places, especially on the web.
As the tools become available, the entry gates become lower and lower and
suddenly the place is flooded with amateurs. But is that a bad thing? It’s
not such a cut and dried answer in my mind. "

I have to agree, that my friends in the design space definitely have an
attitude that people who use PageMaker or CorelDraw have no right to hang
out a shingle as a designer. Being a guy who mastered the art of
illustrating comic books yet lacked some of the research skills and pizazz
of a designer, I feel betrayed by my friends who tell me I'm not a designer.
It's like they are belittling my ability to ever learn.

Try this on for size, ask three different builders to each build you a
house, then pick one to pay. How do you think the other two will treat you?


One last point on the upside of contests: Sometimes a brand is so strong,
that the contest is meant to provide awareness of the product or service.
Socially conscious programs, famous people, heck. Contests are great to
generate interest from the community. It sounds like the OP blog post
targeted Harpzon specifically for knowing in advance they would not award a
winner. Sad. I'd keep soliciting responses, and letting the community grow
naturally, then give everyone who entered a free book at least.

-Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, John Posada <> wrote:

>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
>
That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
from which to choose one. Like you said, you don't care whether the builder
wants to go through the hassle of building three distinct houses, or just
show you samples from the past.

When applied to design, this is equivalent to reviewing an artist's
portfolio to determine whether you like their natural design instinct, or if
you think it will take too much work to convey what you think you want.


> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
>
This works at the beginning, but then once you invest in the plan, you find
that the plan will need to be modified because:
a) it won't work completely as designed due to imposed constraints such as
location, policies, etc.
b) it doesn't include all the features you want
c) it includes features that you have no use for

When applied to design, this method is more like importing a template or
theme and then performing necessary customizations yourself. There are tons
of business card templates out there. And clipart for logos is cheap. If a
person wants a full branding strategy, a graphic designer can help work
through the process of conveying the client's message as accurately and
succinctly as possible, then working out different versions of the logo to
demonstrate that branding strategy throughout all the materials: print,
online, automobile, etc. Quote from the blog post:

"As the client, you should know that your designer values your business.
They’re not providing you with a design based purely on aesthetics, and one
that took perhaps 30 minutes to create. They’re looking deep into your
business plan, your company mission, your background, your way of dealing
with people, and many other aspects your brand."

Regarding Richard Querin's comment:
"Finally, the question of whether amateurs should be doing the work of
professionals is popping up in more and more places, especially on the web.
As the tools become available, the entry gates become lower and lower and
suddenly the place is flooded with amateurs. But is that a bad thing? It’s
not such a cut and dried answer in my mind. "

I have to agree, that my friends in the design space definitely have an
attitude that people who use PageMaker or CorelDraw have no right to hang
out a shingle as a designer. Being a guy who mastered the art of
illustrating comic books yet lacked some of the research skills and pizazz
of a designer, I feel betrayed by my friends who tell me I'm not a designer.
It's like they are belittling my ability to ever learn.

Try this on for size, ask three different builders to each build you a
house, then pick one to pay. How do you think the other two will treat you?


One last point on the upside of contests: Sometimes a brand is so strong,
that the contest is meant to provide awareness of the product or service.
Socially conscious programs, famous people, heck. Contests are great to
generate interest from the community. It sounds like the OP blog post
targeted Harpzon specifically for knowing in advance they would not award a
winner. Sad. I'd keep soliciting responses, and letting the community grow
naturally, then give everyone who entered a free book at least.

-Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
>> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
>> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
>> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
>> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>>
>>
> That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
> decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
> from which to choose one.

I also want to see three plans from him on what I am asking for.


--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, John Posada <> wrote:

>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
>
That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
from which to choose one. Like you said, you don't care whether the builder
wants to go through the hassle of building three distinct houses, or just
show you samples from the past.

When applied to design, this is equivalent to reviewing an artist's
portfolio to determine whether you like their natural design instinct, or if
you think it will take too much work to convey what you think you want.


> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
>
This works at the beginning, but then once you invest in the plan, you find
that the plan will need to be modified because:
a) it won't work completely as designed due to imposed constraints such as
location, policies, etc.
b) it doesn't include all the features you want
c) it includes features that you have no use for

When applied to design, this method is more like importing a template or
theme and then performing necessary customizations yourself. There are tons
of business card templates out there. And clipart for logos is cheap. If a
person wants a full branding strategy, a graphic designer can help work
through the process of conveying the client's message as accurately and
succinctly as possible, then working out different versions of the logo to
demonstrate that branding strategy throughout all the materials: print,
online, automobile, etc. Quote from the blog post:

"As the client, you should know that your designer values your business.
They’re not providing you with a design based purely on aesthetics, and one
that took perhaps 30 minutes to create. They’re looking deep into your
business plan, your company mission, your background, your way of dealing
with people, and many other aspects your brand."

Regarding Richard Querin's comment:
"Finally, the question of whether amateurs should be doing the work of
professionals is popping up in more and more places, especially on the web.
As the tools become available, the entry gates become lower and lower and
suddenly the place is flooded with amateurs. But is that a bad thing? It’s
not such a cut and dried answer in my mind. "

I have to agree, that my friends in the design space definitely have an
attitude that people who use PageMaker or CorelDraw have no right to hang
out a shingle as a designer. Being a guy who mastered the art of
illustrating comic books yet lacked some of the research skills and pizazz
of a designer, I feel betrayed by my friends who tell me I'm not a designer.
It's like they are belittling my ability to ever learn.

Try this on for size, ask three different builders to each build you a
house, then pick one to pay. How do you think the other two will treat you?


One last point on the upside of contests: Sometimes a brand is so strong,
that the contest is meant to provide awareness of the product or service.
Socially conscious programs, famous people, heck. Contests are great to
generate interest from the community. It sounds like the OP blog post
targeted Harpzon specifically for knowing in advance they would not award a
winner. Sad. I'd keep soliciting responses, and letting the community grow
naturally, then give everyone who entered a free book at least.

-Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
>> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
>> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
>> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
>> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>>
>>
> That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
> decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
> from which to choose one.

I also want to see three plans from him on what I am asking for.


--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Even with a "grand prize" you won't get the true professionals
participating in such a game. All whom I know and have worked with
openly oppose them.

While engaging students in such activities might seem worthwhile, you
are only tapping their artistic abilities and not their design
abilities. Design is not about looks, but about purpose, utility, and
character. Many artists are ill-equipped to be successful designers,
and many successful designers couldn't survive as artists.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Gene Kim-Eng <> wrote:
> I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
> students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
> and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
> "winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design.  But I'd be
> embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
> of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
> Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
> of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
> prizes.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, John Posada <> wrote:

>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
>
That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
from which to choose one. Like you said, you don't care whether the builder
wants to go through the hassle of building three distinct houses, or just
show you samples from the past.

When applied to design, this is equivalent to reviewing an artist's
portfolio to determine whether you like their natural design instinct, or if
you think it will take too much work to convey what you think you want.


> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
>
This works at the beginning, but then once you invest in the plan, you find
that the plan will need to be modified because:
a) it won't work completely as designed due to imposed constraints such as
location, policies, etc.
b) it doesn't include all the features you want
c) it includes features that you have no use for

When applied to design, this method is more like importing a template or
theme and then performing necessary customizations yourself. There are tons
of business card templates out there. And clipart for logos is cheap. If a
person wants a full branding strategy, a graphic designer can help work
through the process of conveying the client's message as accurately and
succinctly as possible, then working out different versions of the logo to
demonstrate that branding strategy throughout all the materials: print,
online, automobile, etc. Quote from the blog post:

"As the client, you should know that your designer values your business.
They’re not providing you with a design based purely on aesthetics, and one
that took perhaps 30 minutes to create. They’re looking deep into your
business plan, your company mission, your background, your way of dealing
with people, and many other aspects your brand."

Regarding Richard Querin's comment:
"Finally, the question of whether amateurs should be doing the work of
professionals is popping up in more and more places, especially on the web.
As the tools become available, the entry gates become lower and lower and
suddenly the place is flooded with amateurs. But is that a bad thing? It’s
not such a cut and dried answer in my mind. "

I have to agree, that my friends in the design space definitely have an
attitude that people who use PageMaker or CorelDraw have no right to hang
out a shingle as a designer. Being a guy who mastered the art of
illustrating comic books yet lacked some of the research skills and pizazz
of a designer, I feel betrayed by my friends who tell me I'm not a designer.
It's like they are belittling my ability to ever learn.

Try this on for size, ask three different builders to each build you a
house, then pick one to pay. How do you think the other two will treat you?


One last point on the upside of contests: Sometimes a brand is so strong,
that the contest is meant to provide awareness of the product or service.
Socially conscious programs, famous people, heck. Contests are great to
generate interest from the community. It sounds like the OP blog post
targeted Harpzon specifically for knowing in advance they would not award a
winner. Sad. I'd keep soliciting responses, and letting the community grow
naturally, then give everyone who entered a free book at least.

-Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
>> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
>> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
>> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
>> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>>
>>
> That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
> decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
> from which to choose one.

I also want to see three plans from him on what I am asking for.


--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Even with a "grand prize" you won't get the true professionals
participating in such a game. All whom I know and have worked with
openly oppose them.

While engaging students in such activities might seem worthwhile, you
are only tapping their artistic abilities and not their design
abilities. Design is not about looks, but about purpose, utility, and
character. Many artists are ill-equipped to be successful designers,
and many successful designers couldn't survive as artists.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Gene Kim-Eng <> wrote:
> I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
> students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
> and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
> "winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design.  But I'd be
> embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
> of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
> Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
> of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
> prizes.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Houses do not equate to brand identities.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, John Posada <> wrote:
> No argument...lots of questions.
>
> I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
> closely as possible.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, John Posada <> wrote:

>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
>
That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
from which to choose one. Like you said, you don't care whether the builder
wants to go through the hassle of building three distinct houses, or just
show you samples from the past.

When applied to design, this is equivalent to reviewing an artist's
portfolio to determine whether you like their natural design instinct, or if
you think it will take too much work to convey what you think you want.


> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
>
This works at the beginning, but then once you invest in the plan, you find
that the plan will need to be modified because:
a) it won't work completely as designed due to imposed constraints such as
location, policies, etc.
b) it doesn't include all the features you want
c) it includes features that you have no use for

When applied to design, this method is more like importing a template or
theme and then performing necessary customizations yourself. There are tons
of business card templates out there. And clipart for logos is cheap. If a
person wants a full branding strategy, a graphic designer can help work
through the process of conveying the client's message as accurately and
succinctly as possible, then working out different versions of the logo to
demonstrate that branding strategy throughout all the materials: print,
online, automobile, etc. Quote from the blog post:

"As the client, you should know that your designer values your business.
They’re not providing you with a design based purely on aesthetics, and one
that took perhaps 30 minutes to create. They’re looking deep into your
business plan, your company mission, your background, your way of dealing
with people, and many other aspects your brand."

Regarding Richard Querin's comment:
"Finally, the question of whether amateurs should be doing the work of
professionals is popping up in more and more places, especially on the web.
As the tools become available, the entry gates become lower and lower and
suddenly the place is flooded with amateurs. But is that a bad thing? It’s
not such a cut and dried answer in my mind. "

I have to agree, that my friends in the design space definitely have an
attitude that people who use PageMaker or CorelDraw have no right to hang
out a shingle as a designer. Being a guy who mastered the art of
illustrating comic books yet lacked some of the research skills and pizazz
of a designer, I feel betrayed by my friends who tell me I'm not a designer.
It's like they are belittling my ability to ever learn.

Try this on for size, ask three different builders to each build you a
house, then pick one to pay. How do you think the other two will treat you?


One last point on the upside of contests: Sometimes a brand is so strong,
that the contest is meant to provide awareness of the product or service.
Socially conscious programs, famous people, heck. Contests are great to
generate interest from the community. It sounds like the OP blog post
targeted Harpzon specifically for knowing in advance they would not award a
winner. Sad. I'd keep soliciting responses, and letting the community grow
naturally, then give everyone who entered a free book at least.

-Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
>> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
>> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
>> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
>> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>>
>>
> That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
> decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
> from which to choose one.

I also want to see three plans from him on what I am asking for.


--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Even with a "grand prize" you won't get the true professionals
participating in such a game. All whom I know and have worked with
openly oppose them.

While engaging students in such activities might seem worthwhile, you
are only tapping their artistic abilities and not their design
abilities. Design is not about looks, but about purpose, utility, and
character. Many artists are ill-equipped to be successful designers,
and many successful designers couldn't survive as artists.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Gene Kim-Eng <> wrote:
> I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
> students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
> and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
> "winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design.  But I'd be
> embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
> of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
> Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
> of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
> prizes.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Houses do not equate to brand identities.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, John Posada <> wrote:
> No argument...lots of questions.
>
> I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
> closely as possible.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I'm sure I'd get a similar response from most upper management types
about the idea of paying the "winner" $100,000 for a logo design.

The idea of working with students is that they're supposed to get more
out of the arrangement than you do. I doubt I'd be able to sell most
upper management types on that idea, either.

But it sometimes does help make really bad ideas go away.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Bill Swallow <> wrote:
> Even with a "grand prize" you won't get the true professionals
> participating in such a game. All whom I know and have worked with
> openly oppose them.
>
> While engaging students in such activities might seem worthwhile, you
> are only tapping their artistic abilities and not their design
> abilities. Design is not about looks, but about purpose, utility, and
> character. Many artists are ill-equipped to be successful designers,
> and many successful designers couldn't survive as artists.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)

Hi,
I know most of the communication on this mailing list is related to technical writing, but I'm posting this message in the hopes that there are also some graphic designers on this list.

A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.

Thanks,
Melissa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Does your friend know about this site?

http://www.designcontest.com/

At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
designers.



On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
<> wrote:
> A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer who can help design a company logo.  Please contact me directly (at ) if you that's you (or someone you know).  I'll pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa


--
Julie Stickler
http://heratech.wordpress.com/
Blogging about Agile and technical writing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
the contest).

-Wendy Sheridan


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Julie Stickler <> wrote:

> Does your friend know about this site?
>
> http://www.designcontest.com/
>
> At a previous gig one of the product managers used them, and I thought
> it was a pretty neat way to get submissions from a variety of
> designers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Melissa Clark
> <> wrote:
> > A contact of mine is looking for a (freelance/contract) graphic designer
> who can help design a company logo. Please contact me directly (at
> ) if you that's you (or someone you know). I'll
> pass any responses on to my contact who needs the help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> http://heratech.wordpress.com/
> Blogging about Agile and technical writing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC
chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her
preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her
clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
> clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were
> building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them
> to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
built for others (and he did), that's up to him.

I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
and I pick one.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
As a professional writer and not a designer, I found Richard Querin's
first (long) comment very interesting in this regard. I'm not
unsympathetic to Airey's position, but Querin can't be dismissed out of
hand. In order to define quality, you need a customer (or a customer's
customer) who can tell the difference. That's certainly the case with
writing!


-----Original Message-----
From: voxwoman
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Julie Stickler
Cc: Melissa Clark; techwr-
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/

And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write
the
rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really
asking
for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you
"win"
the contest).




This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us, by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

To pick the architect (and the builder) in the first place (before all the
design went into anything), I'd ask friends for recommendations and I'd look
at other work they have done. I wouldn't ask 30 people to rough out a house
for me and then pick one.

I don't know if I've posted this link before here, but I always like these
"analogies"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

-Wendy


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, John Posada <> wrote:

> > clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they
> were
> > building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for
> them
> > to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)
>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
> --
> John Posada
> http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/voxwoman%40gmail.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-
>
> Send administrative questions to . Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
"winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design. But I'd be
embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
prizes.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of a
> manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to write the
> rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest, it's really asking
> for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
"would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from?"

No, but a client in that environment might ask to see several designs on paper (plans) before allowing the builder to put a shovel in the ground..

Ben






-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+bdavies= [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+bdavies=] On Behalf Of Tony Chung
Sent: April-25-11 1:44 PM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: graphics designer needed for logo help

Wendy,

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I was going to. Last week our STC chapter hosted a presentation by a Sr. Usability consultant who shared her preference for collaborative design throughout the process. She diverts her clients' "show me three and I'll pick one" mentality by asking if they were building a house, would they ask the builder to build three houses for them to choose from? Your example is more pertinent to our line of work. ;-)

-Tony


Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM, voxwoman <> wrote:

> Before going to a "contest" website, read this:
> http://www.davidairey.com/logo-design-contests-bad-for-business/
>
> And ask yourselves as technical writers, would you write a chapter of
> a manual for free and hope that the client decides to hire you to
> write the rest of the book? (in the case of a logo design contest,
> it's really asking for you to write the entire book for free up front and hope that you "win"
> the contest).
>
> -Wendy Sheridan
>
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/bdavies%40imris.com


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat


_______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System.

This email has been scanned by the IMRIS Email Security System
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
No argument...lots of questions.

I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
closely as possible.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, voxwoman <> wrote:
> If I was asking an architect to design me a house, the architect should be
> good enough to ASK me what kind of house I wanted, what I planned to do with
> the house (entertaining? how many? what crafts/hobbies/home businesses are
> you running out of there and what kind of space does the equipment need?
> etc) how many rooms, where they should be located, and something about the
> personalities and tastes of the people living in the house. And then he'd
> ask me questions I didn't think of, because he's the professional and I'm
> NOT. I'd then expect to see some sketches/drawings of possibilities.

--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, John Posada <> wrote:

>
> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>
>
That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
from which to choose one. Like you said, you don't care whether the builder
wants to go through the hassle of building three distinct houses, or just
show you samples from the past.

When applied to design, this is equivalent to reviewing an artist's
portfolio to determine whether you like their natural design instinct, or if
you think it will take too much work to convey what you think you want.


> I would think it reasdonable for him to show me three different plans
> and I pick one.
>
>
This works at the beginning, but then once you invest in the plan, you find
that the plan will need to be modified because:
a) it won't work completely as designed due to imposed constraints such as
location, policies, etc.
b) it doesn't include all the features you want
c) it includes features that you have no use for

When applied to design, this method is more like importing a template or
theme and then performing necessary customizations yourself. There are tons
of business card templates out there. And clipart for logos is cheap. If a
person wants a full branding strategy, a graphic designer can help work
through the process of conveying the client's message as accurately and
succinctly as possible, then working out different versions of the logo to
demonstrate that branding strategy throughout all the materials: print,
online, automobile, etc. Quote from the blog post:

"As the client, you should know that your designer values your business.
They’re not providing you with a design based purely on aesthetics, and one
that took perhaps 30 minutes to create. They’re looking deep into your
business plan, your company mission, your background, your way of dealing
with people, and many other aspects your brand."

Regarding Richard Querin's comment:
"Finally, the question of whether amateurs should be doing the work of
professionals is popping up in more and more places, especially on the web.
As the tools become available, the entry gates become lower and lower and
suddenly the place is flooded with amateurs. But is that a bad thing? It’s
not such a cut and dried answer in my mind. "

I have to agree, that my friends in the design space definitely have an
attitude that people who use PageMaker or CorelDraw have no right to hang
out a shingle as a designer. Being a guy who mastered the art of
illustrating comic books yet lacked some of the research skills and pizazz
of a designer, I feel betrayed by my friends who tell me I'm not a designer.
It's like they are belittling my ability to ever learn.

Try this on for size, ask three different builders to each build you a
house, then pick one to pay. How do you think the other two will treat you?


One last point on the upside of contests: Sometimes a brand is so strong,
that the contest is meant to provide awareness of the product or service.
Socially conscious programs, famous people, heck. Contests are great to
generate interest from the community. It sounds like the OP blog post
targeted Harpzon specifically for knowing in advance they would not award a
winner. Sad. I'd keep soliciting responses, and letting the community grow
naturally, then give everyone who entered a free book at least.

-Tony
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
>> If I was asking a builder to build me a house (and I have), I would
>> certainly ask him to show me three different houses he has
>> built...whether he wants to build three for me or show me three he has
>> built for others (and he did), that's up to him.
>>
>>
> That's a little different. In this case you are willing to base your
> decision on the builder's past work, and not expecting three custom examples
> from which to choose one.

I also want to see three plans from him on what I am asking for.


--
John Posada
http://jposada.zenfolio.com/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Even with a "grand prize" you won't get the true professionals
participating in such a game. All whom I know and have worked with
openly oppose them.

While engaging students in such activities might seem worthwhile, you
are only tapping their artistic abilities and not their design
abilities. Design is not about looks, but about purpose, utility, and
character. Many artists are ill-equipped to be successful designers,
and many successful designers couldn't survive as artists.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Gene Kim-Eng <> wrote:
> I might consider using this approach if I was working with a group of
> students; have them submit their efforts for class credit, feedback
> and some insight into how work is evaluated and selected, then pay the
> "winner" full market fee for the use of his or her design.  But I'd be
> embarrassed to have my name or company associated with this as a means
> of obtaining work from professionals with experience and credentials.
> Unless maybe I had $100,000 to award as the "grand prize" and a couple
> of dozen pallets of techie toys to hand out as "thanks for entering"
> prizes.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Houses do not equate to brand identities.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, John Posada <> wrote:
> No argument...lots of questions.
>
> I still want to see things he has built that resemble my needs as
> closely as possible.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
I'm sure I'd get a similar response from most upper management types
about the idea of paying the "winner" $100,000 for a logo design.

The idea of working with students is that they're supposed to get more
out of the arrangement than you do. I doubt I'd be able to sell most
upper management types on that idea, either.

But it sometimes does help make really bad ideas go away.

Gene Kim-Eng



On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Bill Swallow <> wrote:
> Even with a "grand prize" you won't get the true professionals
> participating in such a game. All whom I know and have worked with
> openly oppose them.
>
> While engaging students in such activities might seem worthwhile, you
> are only tapping their artistic abilities and not their design
> abilities. Design is not about looks, but about purpose, utility, and
> character. Many artists are ill-equipped to be successful designers,
> and many successful designers couldn't survive as artists.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)
Not sure what you mean by upper management.

My point is that real design firms shun and decry these types of
contests because they fly in the face of the brand development process
and overall cheapen the value of the "winning" brand identity.
Designing a logo is about 10% of the brand identity development
process - kind of like how typing words is about 10% of what a
technical writer actually does in order to create documentation.

I understand working with students is about enrichment and such, but
contests teach the wrong lessons. They are simply the wrong approach
to brand identity development. It has nothing to do with "oooh pretty"
and everything to do with capturing a company's vision, mission,
culture and message into one identifiable (familiar, even) iconic
moniker (and all the strategy for properly employing it within the
target markets).

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Gene Kim-Eng <> wrote:
> I'm sure I'd get a similar response from most upper management types
> about the idea of paying the "winner" $100,000 for a logo design.
>
> The idea of working with students is that they're supposed to get more
> out of the arrangement than you do.  I doubt I'd be able to sell most
> upper management types on that idea, either.
>
> But it sometimes does help make really bad ideas go away.

--
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with Doc-To-Help.
Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
http://www.doctohelp.com

---
You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as .

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
techwr-l-
or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/rebbecca.emm%40zeusmail.org


To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-

Send administrative questions to . Visit
http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.

Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat

)