I don't get to post much that's useful, and, well, maybe this won't be
either. ;-)))

But I've finally discovered the Data Pilot in Libre/OpenOffice Calc.
Here's my confession:

Sometime ago, I setup this really elaborate spreadsheet with a sheet
for each major category of expenses, plus an income page. I then
created an even more elaborate summary page that shows every category
for every month, and whether I'm over or under budget. I've been
manually entering my receipts every so often (which seems to be less
often these days), and then I can look and say, "Behold! I have
managed to stay above budget!!"

I've known for some time that I can simply download my bank data
(except for Wachovia, which insists on forcing the Quicken format down
my throat). Well, ok, I'll try out the Calc2QIF macro before I grouch
too much about that. Oddly, I really only used it for checking my
receipts.

After learning about the data pilot, I started into that most
dangerous of activities... thinking. So just for fun, I downloaded
about 3 months of raw data from the bank and played with the data
pilot. It doesn't give me the budget comparison, but it can.

I download the data.
I throw in a column of categories (unfortunately I have to assign the
categories manually).
I fire up the data pilot, putting the dates in the columns, Categories
in rows and the transactions as the data. And I create a new sheet
for the result set.
I sum the categories.
I then us Data > Group & Outline > Group to group the dates by months.
I suppose this is where I can use the data pilot a 2nd time to create
the comparisons to budget.
Then there's the possibility of charting... :-)

I haven't really changed my spreadsheet habit just yet - it's still a
new discovery for me. But instead of having a spreadsheet for each
year, I can have 1 spreadsheet with 1 sheet each for 10 years of data.

I guess my point is, the better you know a tool, the more effective
you can be in using it. That's true whether we're talking about God's
Word, a shovel or a spreadsheet.

My other point is, never lose your sense of curiosity about how things work.

Now you all can come along and tell me how you do it back in
Cleveland. Or Machu Picchu or whereever. :-p

Blessings,
Don
--
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris

_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

> I haven't really changed my spreadsheet habit just yet - it's still a
> new discovery for me. But instead of having a spreadsheet for each
> year, I can have 1 spreadsheet with 1 sheet each for 10 years of data.
>
> I guess my point is, the better you know a tool, the more effective
> you can be in using it. That's true whether we're talking about God's
> Word, a shovel or a spreadsheet.

Thanks for sharing, but I do have one question: why not GnuCash?

sjm

_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

Of course, any time someone talks about how you can put 10 years
worth of data into any one thing, my thoughts immediately switch over
to thoughts about "backups" :)

My wife and I use a database package that we created, that does about
the same sort of thing. The end result is that we can better see how
we have spent our finances instead of giving us strict guidelines on
how to spend the finances. When we were first married, we had some
long discussions about the concept of a "budget." I was thinking
that a budget was supposed to guide your spending habits (put
limitations on spending), while my wife thought it was something that
let you observe how things are spent and give you a baseline to
compare things to. We have the world's most flexible "budget". As
missionaries, we do not have a consistent income (the amount changes
fairly regularly), and we spend about 8-months of the year driving
from one mission to the next, so our gas expense changes
dramatically. So our "budgeting" program allows us to change the
budget after the fact. We look to see where our funds were spend, we
look to see how much came in, and then we change the budget
accordingly, though the sum of all budget items never exceeds the
amount that came in that month. If we go over budget in a category
one month, we keep a negative amount in that category until we "pay
it back off" the next month or two. Originally, I thought this was
the most insane form of "budgeting", as it threw out the concept of
being a guideline to follow. But it does do what it needs to do, in
that we can see, month-by-month, how we have spent our money and make
sure we are not over-spending for our income.

All that to say, it is fun to learn new technologies, but it is
better yet to hear that you have a good budgeting system that works
for you. I think we all need to be wise stewards of our finances,
regardless of the wacky ways, technologies, or methods we use. And
it seems like you may even be having some fun while doing it. :)

- Tim Young

On 4/11/2011 7:11 PM, Don Parris wrote:
> Now you all can come along and tell me how you do it back in
> Cleveland. Or Machu Picchu or whereever.

_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

@ sjm - I tried GnuCash, and it's ok, except for splitting my paycheck
- income & taxes, etc. I managed to do it successfully once, and then
2 weeks later, it was like having to learn it all over again. For me,
it was pretty frustrating - I didn't have the patience with it that I
would have liked. Of course, I'm a little older now, and might try it
again.

@ Tim - When I started this spreadsheet project, the idea was to track
my spending so I could establish a reasonable baseline. Over the
first 2 years, I managed to improve my tracking - and, of course, my
spending habits. It's been very helpful, to say the least. I like to
keep it 'reasonable' and do use it to help me achieve my goals.

Even so, I tend to dread manually entering the receipts, and my
favorite thing here is that I can accomplish more with less effort. I
only use cash in certain situations, so the ability to simply import
my transactions is really helpful. Yes, I still have to categorize,
but that helps me to verify the transactions.




On 4/12/11, Tim Young <> wrote:
> Of course, any time someone talks about how you can put 10 years
> worth of data into any one thing, my thoughts immediately switch over
> to thoughts about "backups" :)
>
> My wife and I use a database package that we created, that does about
> the same sort of thing. The end result is that we can better see how
> we have spent our finances instead of giving us strict guidelines on
> how to spend the finances. When we were first married, we had some
> long discussions about the concept of a "budget." I was thinking
> that a budget was supposed to guide your spending habits (put
> limitations on spending), while my wife thought it was something that
> let you observe how things are spent and give you a baseline to
> compare things to. We have the world's most flexible "budget". As
> missionaries, we do not have a consistent income (the amount changes
> fairly regularly), and we spend about 8-months of the year driving
> from one mission to the next, so our gas expense changes
> dramatically. So our "budgeting" program allows us to change the
> budget after the fact. We look to see where our funds were spend, we
> look to see how much came in, and then we change the budget
> accordingly, though the sum of all budget items never exceeds the
> amount that came in that month. If we go over budget in a category
> one month, we keep a negative amount in that category until we "pay
> it back off" the next month or two. Originally, I thought this was
> the most insane form of "budgeting", as it threw out the concept of
> being a guideline to follow. But it does do what it needs to do, in
> that we can see, month-by-month, how we have spent our money and make
> sure we are not over-spending for our income.
>
> All that to say, it is fun to learn new technologies, but it is
> better yet to hear that you have a good budgeting system that works
> for you. I think we all need to be wise stewards of our finances,
> regardless of the wacky ways, technologies, or methods we use. And
> it seems like you may even be having some fun while doing it. :)
>
> - Tim Young
>
> On 4/11/2011 7:11 PM, Don Parris wrote:
>> Now you all can come along and tell me how you do it back in
>> Cleveland. Or Machu Picchu or whereever.
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list
>
> http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
>


--
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris

_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

There's a metaphor here somewhere on living like a Christian, and if I
weren't so tired right now I might be able to put my finger on it.
Throwing away artificial guidelines, and living carefully, respectfully
(righteously?) minding the fact that not "everything goes", and going
back to the Lord from time to time to readjust, has something for it
(though don't extend the example to paying back for mistakes...)
>> dramatically. So our "budgeting" program allows us to change the
>> budget after the fact. We look to see where our funds were spend, we
>> look to see how much came in, and then we change the budget
>> accordingly, though the sum of all budget items never exceeds the
>> amount that came in that month. If we go over budget in a category
>> one month, we keep a negative amount in that category until we "pay
>> it back off" the next month or two. Originally, I thought this was
>> the most insane form of "budgeting", as it threw out the concept of
>> being a guideline to follow.

_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 18:29 -0400, Don Parris wrote:
> @ sjm - I tried GnuCash, and it's ok, except for splitting my paycheck
> - income & taxes, etc. I managed to do it successfully once, and then
> 2 weeks later, it was like having to learn it all over again. For me,
> it was pretty frustrating - I didn't have the patience with it that I
> would have liked. Of course, I'm a little older now, and might try it
> again.
>
> @ Tim - When I started this spreadsheet project, the idea was to track
> my spending so I could establish a reasonable baseline. Over the
> first 2 years, I managed to improve my tracking - and, of course, my
> spending habits. It's been very helpful, to say the least. I like to
> keep it 'reasonable' and do use it to help me achieve my goals.
>
> Even so, I tend to dread manually entering the receipts, and my
> favorite thing here is that I can accomplish more with less effort. I
> only use cash in certain situations, so the ability to simply import
> my transactions is really helpful. Yes, I still have to categorize,
> but that helps me to verify the transactions.

My wife works at a bank and pretty soon some or all banks will be
cutting down on how much you can spend on your Debt card in a single
day. So far we have heard it will probably be 100.00 for a single day.

I'm contemplating not using a bank anymore because I know some things
that banks try to hide.. The banks are also changing the way they do
things to try and trip people up and rack up overdraft charges. For
instance, my bank has quit processing online bill pay on the weekends
until the following Monday, they have also quit taking debt card
transactions out of your balance immediately and tries to hold them
longer without showing them on their website. This is a tactic to try
and cause overdrafts.

I know plenty more. probably more than I should.

As for software, I can't stand GnuCash, it's just way to overcomplicated
for something so simple and kmymoney is lacking way too far behind and
after a couple years of trying various ones, I've settled on Moneydance
for about the past 5 years. It works great, does probably everything
this thread mentions and isn't overcomplicated.

But.... With the way banks are starting to change the way they do
things, I don't think the software out these days will be able to handle
the changes.

For example banks are going to hold debt card transactions back and not
immediately show them pending, then that means you will need to manually
enter that transaction so you will know what your current balance is,
then when it finally gets entered by the bank and you use your software
to download the transactions, you will have a duplicate and your balance
will be wrong so now you have to remember to delete one of them
transactions.

Or better yet, your software catches a duplicate and asks you what you
want to do, and you start hallucinating! ;-)


_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:23 PM, David McGlone <> wrote:

> I'm contemplating not using a bank anymore because I know some things
> that banks try to hide.. The banks are also changing the way they do
> things to try and trip people up and rack up overdraft charges. For
> instance, my bank has quit processing online bill pay on the weekends
> until the following Monday, they have also quit taking debt card
> transactions out of your balance immediately and tries to hold them
> longer without showing them on their website. This is a tactic to try
> and cause overdrafts.
>

That was one reason I started doing the budget before the month starts. As
long as expenses stay under budget, the bank doesn't win. The hardest part
is tracking sinking funds (save a little each month for big, annual bills).
GnuCash's double entry accounting gets in the way.

Cash still works best for stuff like food and gas. At least then we always
know exactly how much is left. Makes it very easy to say "no" (or "yes")
when the kids ask for ice cream.

As hard as it is, I love having a budget - telling the money where to go
instead of wondering where it went.

--
Robert Wohlfarth

If you want to add another alternative to the list - I've been using
HomeBank ( http://homebank.free.fr/ ) for a couple of years for our
accounts. It was a big improvement on the complex spreadsheet I was using
before that. (I also briefly tried out GnuCash, but found it far too
complicated for what I wanted to do).

Davo

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Don Parris <> wrote:

> @ sjm - I tried GnuCash, and it's ok, except for splitting my paycheck
> - income & taxes, etc. I managed to do it successfully once, and then
> 2 weeks later, it was like having to learn it all over again. For me,
> it was pretty frustrating - I didn't have the patience with it that I
> would have liked. Of course, I'm a little older now, and might try it
> again.
>
> @ Tim - When I started this spreadsheet project, the idea was to track
> my spending so I could establish a reasonable baseline. Over the
> first 2 years, I managed to improve my tracking - and, of course, my
> spending habits. It's been very helpful, to say the least. I like to
> keep it 'reasonable' and do use it to help me achieve my goals.
>
> Even so, I tend to dread manually entering the receipts, and my
> favorite thing here is that I can accomplish more with less effort. I
> only use cash in certain situations, so the ability to simply import
> my transactions is really helpful. Yes, I still have to categorize,
> but that helps me to verify the transactions.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/12/11, Tim Young <> wrote:
> > Of course, any time someone talks about how you can put 10 years
> > worth of data into any one thing, my thoughts immediately switch over
> > to thoughts about "backups" :)
> >
> > My wife and I use a database package that we created, that does about
> > the same sort of thing. The end result is that we can better see how
> > we have spent our finances instead of giving us strict guidelines on
> > how to spend the finances. When we were first married, we had some
> > long discussions about the concept of a "budget." I was thinking
> > that a budget was supposed to guide your spending habits (put
> > limitations on spending), while my wife thought it was something that
> > let you observe how things are spent and give you a baseline to
> > compare things to. We have the world's most flexible "budget". As
> > missionaries, we do not have a consistent income (the amount changes
> > fairly regularly), and we spend about 8-months of the year driving
> > from one mission to the next, so our gas expense changes
> > dramatically. So our "budgeting" program allows us to change the
> > budget after the fact. We look to see where our funds were spend, we
> > look to see how much came in, and then we change the budget
> > accordingly, though the sum of all budget items never exceeds the
> > amount that came in that month. If we go over budget in a category
> > one month, we keep a negative amount in that category until we "pay
> > it back off" the next month or two. Originally, I thought this was
> > the most insane form of "budgeting", as it threw out the concept of
> > being a guideline to follow. But it does do what it needs to do, in
> > that we can see, month-by-month, how we have spent our money and make
> > sure we are not over-spending for our income.
> >
> > All that to say, it is fun to learn new technologies, but it is
> > better yet to hear that you have a good budgeting system that works
> > for you. I think we all need to be wise stewards of our finances,
> > regardless of the wacky ways, technologies, or methods we use. And
> > it seems like you may even be having some fun while doing it. :)
> >
> > - Tim Young
> >
> > On 4/11/2011 7:11 PM, Don Parris wrote:
> >> Now you all can come along and tell me how you do it back in
> >> Cleveland. Or Machu Picchu or whereever.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list
> >
> > http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
> >
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list
>
> http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
>

On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 07:58 +0100, Davo Smith wrote:
> If you want to add another alternative to the list - I've been using
> HomeBank ( http://homebank.free.fr/ ) for a couple of years for our
> accounts. It was a big improvement on the complex spreadsheet I was
> using before that. (I also briefly tried out GnuCash, but found it far
> too complicated for what I wanted to do).

I just installed homebank and it is nice, but it doesn't have the
ability to download transactions. :-(

>
>
> Davo
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Don Parris <>
> wrote:
> @ sjm - I tried GnuCash, and it's ok, except for splitting my
> paycheck
> - income & taxes, etc. I managed to do it successfully once,
> and then
> 2 weeks later, it was like having to learn it all over again.
> For me,
> it was pretty frustrating - I didn't have the patience with it
> that I
> would have liked. Of course, I'm a little older now, and
> might try it
> again.
>
> @ Tim - When I started this spreadsheet project, the idea was
> to track
> my spending so I could establish a reasonable baseline. Over
> the
> first 2 years, I managed to improve my tracking - and, of
> course, my
> spending habits. It's been very helpful, to say the least. I
> like to
> keep it 'reasonable' and do use it to help me achieve my
> goals.
>
> Even so, I tend to dread manually entering the receipts, and
> my
> favorite thing here is that I can accomplish more with less
> effort. I
> only use cash in certain situations, so the ability to simply
> import
> my transactions is really helpful. Yes, I still have to
> categorize,
> but that helps me to verify the transactions.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/12/11, Tim Young <> wrote:
> > Of course, any time someone talks about how you can put 10
> years
> > worth of data into any one thing, my thoughts immediately
> switch over
> > to thoughts about "backups" :)
> >
> > My wife and I use a database package that we created, that
> does about
> > the same sort of thing. The end result is that we can
> better see how
> > we have spent our finances instead of giving us strict
> guidelines on
> > how to spend the finances. When we were first married, we
> had some
> > long discussions about the concept of a "budget." I was
> thinking
> > that a budget was supposed to guide your spending habits
> (put
> > limitations on spending), while my wife thought it was
> something that
> > let you observe how things are spent and give you a baseline
> to
> > compare things to. We have the world's most flexible
> "budget". As
> > missionaries, we do not have a consistent income (the amount
> changes
> > fairly regularly), and we spend about 8-months of the year
> driving
> > from one mission to the next, so our gas expense changes
> > dramatically. So our "budgeting" program allows us to
> change the
> > budget after the fact. We look to see where our funds were
> spend, we
> > look to see how much came in, and then we change the budget
> > accordingly, though the sum of all budget items never
> exceeds the
> > amount that came in that month. If we go over budget in a
> category
> > one month, we keep a negative amount in that category until
> we "pay
> > it back off" the next month or two. Originally, I thought
> this was
> > the most insane form of "budgeting", as it threw out the
> concept of
> > being a guideline to follow. But it does do what it needs
> to do, in
> > that we can see, month-by-month, how we have spent our money
> and make
> > sure we are not over-spending for our income.
> >
> > All that to say, it is fun to learn new technologies, but it
> is
> > better yet to hear that you have a good budgeting system
> that works
> > for you. I think we all need to be wise stewards of our
> finances,
> > regardless of the wacky ways, technologies, or methods we
> use. And
> > it seems like you may even be having some fun while doing
> it. :)
> >
> > - Tim Young
> >
> > On 4/11/2011 7:11 PM, Don Parris wrote:
> >> Now you all can come along and tell me how you do it back
> in
> >> Cleveland. Or Machu Picchu or whereever.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list
> >
> > http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list
>
> http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list
>
> http://cs.uninetsolutions.com



_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)

On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 21:17 -0500, Robert Wohlfarth wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:23 PM, David McGlone <>
> wrote:
> I'm contemplating not using a bank anymore because I know some
> things
> that banks try to hide.. The banks are also changing the way
> they do
> things to try and trip people up and rack up overdraft
> charges. For
> instance, my bank has quit processing online bill pay on the
> weekends
> until the following Monday, they have also quit taking debt
> card
> transactions out of your balance immediately and tries to hold
> them
> longer without showing them on their website. This is a tactic
> to try
> and cause overdrafts.
>
> That was one reason I started doing the budget before the month
> starts. As long as expenses stay under budget, the bank doesn't win.
> The hardest part is tracking sinking funds (save a little each month
> for big, annual bills). GnuCash's double entry accounting gets in the
> way.

I agree. What upsets me is the fact that the banks are starting to be
very insidious. In my book it is very unethical.

>
> Cash still works best for stuff like food and gas. At least then we
> always know exactly how much is left. Makes it very easy to say
> "no" (or "yes") when the kids ask for ice cream.

I hardly ever have cash on me, but I suspect that will be changing soon.
>
> As hard as it is, I love having a budget - telling the money where to
> go instead of wondering where it went.

Yes, budgets are very good. Especially when one has kids.



_______________________________________________
ChristianSource FSLUG mailing list

http://cs.uninetsolutions.com
)