http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)


> is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?

The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of contradictions and�difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of respecting him without�following his recommendations to the letter would need to be 'without sin'�before casting stones. There is no indication that the critics here are any�better than the people they criticise.

> everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi�


Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?

- a.s. )

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)


> is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?

The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of contradictions and�difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of respecting him without�following his recommendations to the letter would need to be 'without sin'�before casting stones. There is no indication that the critics here are any�better than the people they criticise.

> everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi�


Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?

- a.s. )
i am not sure whom this criticism is leveled against - vajpeyi, the author of the article, or at lelyveld.
they are both saying very different things, making very different points, even though the article quotes him. neither are wrong.
indians don't own gandhi. it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book, particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many and continues to inspire them towards mass resistance and non-violence. one does not need any qualifications, or be a mahatma, to state this obvious point.

champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> > is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
>
> The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of
> contradictions and difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of
> respecting him without following his recommendations to the letter
> would need to be 'without sin' before casting stones. There is no
> indication that the critics here are any better than the people they
> criticise.
>
> > everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi 
>
>
> Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?
>
> - a.s.
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)


> is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?

The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of contradictions and�difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of respecting him without�following his recommendations to the letter would need to be 'without sin'�before casting stones. There is no indication that the critics here are any�better than the people they criticise.

> everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi�


Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?

- a.s. )
i am not sure whom this criticism is leveled against - vajpeyi, the author of the article, or at lelyveld.
they are both saying very different things, making very different points, even though the article quotes him. neither are wrong.
indians don't own gandhi. it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book, particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many and continues to inspire them towards mass resistance and non-violence. one does not need any qualifications, or be a mahatma, to state this obvious point.

champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> > is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
>
> The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of
> contradictions and difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of
> respecting him without following his recommendations to the letter
> would need to be 'without sin' before casting stones. There is no
> indication that the critics here are any better than the people they
> criticise.
>
> > everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi 
>
>
> Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?
>
> - a.s.
)

..
> it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book,
> particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many
...


�Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful to substitute any group for an assassin.
�============

Regards
-Srinivas
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)


> is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?

The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of contradictions and�difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of respecting him without�following his recommendations to the letter would need to be 'without sin'�before casting stones. There is no indication that the critics here are any�better than the people they criticise.

> everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi�


Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?

- a.s. )
i am not sure whom this criticism is leveled against - vajpeyi, the author of the article, or at lelyveld.
they are both saying very different things, making very different points, even though the article quotes him. neither are wrong.
indians don't own gandhi. it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book, particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many and continues to inspire them towards mass resistance and non-violence. one does not need any qualifications, or be a mahatma, to state this obvious point.

champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> > is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
>
> The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of
> contradictions and difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of
> respecting him without following his recommendations to the letter
> would need to be 'without sin' before casting stones. There is no
> indication that the critics here are any better than the people they
> criticise.
>
> > everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi 
>
>
> Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?
>
> - a.s.
)

..
> it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book,
> particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many
...


�Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful to substitute any group for an assassin.
�============

Regards
-Srinivas
)
wasn't godse and apte part of the RSS and RSS was subsequently banned as a militant organization upon gandhi's murder?
godse was not mad. he has given ample evidence that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing and why.
champa
----- "Srini Nagul" <> wrote:

> ..
> > it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the
> reading public of india to ban the book,
> > particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are
> respected by the world and has inspired many
> ...
>
>
>  Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful
> to substitute any group for an assassin.
>  ============
>
> Regards
> -Srinivas
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)


> is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?

The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of contradictions and�difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of respecting him without�following his recommendations to the letter would need to be 'without sin'�before casting stones. There is no indication that the critics here are any�better than the people they criticise.

> everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi�


Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?

- a.s. )
i am not sure whom this criticism is leveled against - vajpeyi, the author of the article, or at lelyveld.
they are both saying very different things, making very different points, even though the article quotes him. neither are wrong.
indians don't own gandhi. it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book, particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many and continues to inspire them towards mass resistance and non-violence. one does not need any qualifications, or be a mahatma, to state this obvious point.

champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> > is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
>
> The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of
> contradictions and difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of
> respecting him without following his recommendations to the letter
> would need to be 'without sin' before casting stones. There is no
> indication that the critics here are any better than the people they
> criticise.
>
> > everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi 
>
>
> Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?
>
> - a.s.
)

..
> it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book,
> particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many
...


�Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful to substitute any group for an assassin.
�============

Regards
-Srinivas
)
wasn't godse and apte part of the RSS and RSS was subsequently banned as a militant organization upon gandhi's murder?
godse was not mad. he has given ample evidence that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing and why.
champa
----- "Srini Nagul" <> wrote:

> ..
> > it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the
> reading public of india to ban the book,
> > particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are
> respected by the world and has inspired many
> ...
>
>
>  Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful
> to substitute any group for an assassin.
>  ============
>
> Regards
> -Srinivas
)


Assassin's could be part of any organization, they could be members of any organization.�

Giving evidence to support killing itself is enough evidence of sheer madness.�
===========
Regards
-Srinivas


----- Original Message -----
From: CB <>

> wasn't godse and apte part of the RSS and RSS was subsequently banned as a militant organization upon
> gandhi's murder?
> godse was not mad. he has given ample evidence that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing and why.
)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html






Regards,


Denton Taylor
photogalleries at
www.pbase.com/dentontay/
www.dentontaylor.com

)
Banning season time again:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html

"Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist Joseph Lelyveld."

A furore for the most part set off by this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html

"Joseph Lelyveld has written a �generally admiring book about
�Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo, a
political incompetent and a fanatical faddist�one who was often
downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
archetypal 20th-century progressive �intellectual, professing his love
for mankind as a concept while actually �despising people as
individuals."

anu



On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Denton Taylor
> photogalleries at
> www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> www.dentontaylor.com
>
>
) the WSJ review was particularly revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom Ashbrook on NPR

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread

and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not reach to those conclusions.

the banning and its location in Maharashtra is predictable.
champa
----- "anu kumar" <> wrote:

> Banning season time again:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
>
> "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban sale of a
> controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer prize-winning
> journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
>
> A furore for the most part set off by this:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html
>
> "Joseph Lelyveld has written a ­generally admiring book about
> ­Mohandas Gandhi, the man credited with leading India to independence
> from Britain in 1947. Yet "Great Soul" also obligingly gives readers
> more than enough information to discern that he was a **** weirdo,
> a
> political incompetent and a fanatical faddist—one who was often
> downright cruel to those around him. Gandhi was therefore the
> archetypal 20th-century progressive ­intellectual, professing his
> love
> for mankind as a concept while actually ­despising people as
> individuals."
>
> anu
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2011 02:54, Denton Taylor <> wrote:
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Denton Taylor
> > photogalleries at
> > www.pbase.com/dentontay/
> > www.dentontaylor.com
> >
> >
) A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
) Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
understand the man.

It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
with them.

I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
Truth'.


Rasik Shah


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
To: "SASIALIT" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi



A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
- Ajit.
=

) What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
was?

farah

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Rasik Shah <> wrote:

> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings.
> Anu Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) Rasik:
I agree with your second paragraph.
And so I'll give you the first as well!
- Ajit.

> From:
> To: ;
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:05:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Ajit, phrases like "screwed up" throw no further light in any attempt to
> understand the man.
>
> It seems to me he had managed to "sublimate" most of his inner demons into
> effective moral and social action; the fact that he had human, subconscious
> urges that bedevilled him is mitigated by honest attempts to come to terms
> with them.
>
> I guess his conversations can largely be gathered from his own writings. Anu
> Kumar can throw more light on the sources. I have at hand the original
> Gujarati version of the autobiography and am induced to reading it,
> specially in the light of the excellent and insightful reading of the great
> man's psychology by Erik Erikson in his classical study entitled 'Gandhi's
> Truth'.
>
>
> Rasik Shah
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ajit Dongre" <>
> To: "SASIALIT" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
>
>
> A far more screwed up man than I had ever given him credit for!
> But it's so true that it's really doing disservice to the man and his
> biography to select juicy bits and bandy them about in reviews.
> But I wonder how biographers come up with private conversations which
> must've been unrecorded. For example, Gandhi's weird conversation with his
> grandniece about sleeping together or his apparently callous utterances to
> the workers in East Bengal -- how does Lelyveld know about them?
> - Ajit.
> =
>
) On 30 March 2011 22:37, farah aziz <> wrote:
> What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. �Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?

Manu Gandhi wrote a book, "Bapu, my mother".

gandhi's days in Noakhali and other places in east Pakistan on eve of
Partition where he made this decision on testing himself are also
recorded by Nirmal Kumar Bose, who accompanied him here.

and all of gandhi's writings are available here -
http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/cwmg.html

anu
) > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that she
> was?


According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of him as more woman than man and hence
felt no great inhibition when with him.

This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.

http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm


- a.s.
) many thanks for the link ajit. The book written by Manu seems to be out of
print. Has anyone read it?

farah

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:47 AM, A S <> wrote:

>
> > What I would like to know is what became of the grand niece. Has anyone
> > ever written about her or how she felt about being used in the way that
> she
> > was?
>
>
> According to some reports Manu Gandhi - Gandhi's grandniece - thought of
> him as more woman than man and hence
> felt no great inhibition when with him.
>
> This article refers to writing by Manu Gandhi herself on the matter.
>
> http://www.boloji.com/wfs6/wfs1094.htm
>
>
> - a.s.
>
) Hi, All
U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp

She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
Usama

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:

> From: CB <>
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> the WSJ review was particularly
> revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> Ashbrook on NPR
>
> http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
>
> and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> reach to those conclusions.
>
> the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> predictable.�
> champa
> ----- "anu kumar" <>
> wrote:
>
> > Banning season time again:
> >
> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> >
> > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> sale of a
> > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> prize-winning
> > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> >
> > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> >

)

>From the review - chosen at random :
>>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India treats Gandhi with �piety and disregard�.�

How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ? Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does�he clean his own latrine or abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?

And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as her�spiritual guide in all matters ?�Has she stopped using machine-produced Bilayati fabric ?�

Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?

- a.s. )
is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi and there are a 1000 different opinions of him held by indians and non-indians, both deifying him and trashing him.

i believe anyone who has spent the time to study carefully gandhi's life, gathered as much information and background about him as lelyveld has, and compiled it in a book with a narrative that looks upon him as as a human being, is honoring gandhi's life and the man.
i think one should at least read the book before making comments about the comments on the book.

for Maharashtra to come out with the ban first is not only rich with irony, it's an insult to his life and his ideas.
champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> >From the review - chosen at random :
> >>>Lelyveld points out that seven decades after killing him, India
> treats Gandhi with “piety and disregard”. 
>
> How does the West treat him despite all the supposed deification ?
> Heck, how does Lelyveld treat him ? Does he clean his own latrine or
> abstain from **** with his own wife ? Has he stopped eating meat ?
>
> And what about Ananya-ji ? Does she accept her husband as
> her spiritual guide in all matters ? Has she stopped using
> machine-produced Bilayati fabric ? 
>
> Is honest hypocrisy better than hypocritical honesty ?
>
> - a.s.
)

A worthwhile insight or two -- behind the hyperbole -- when she points out the hypocrisy of Gujarat and Maharashtra, and when she says this:

>> Gandhi never hid the desires, dilemmas or doubts that preoccupied him, and he does not need now to be hidden from the gaze of history.


Usama, I don't think she's saying the ban's goal is to suppress Gandhi's ideas.

- Ajit.

> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:54:47 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
>
> Hi, All
> U-Mass history professor Ananya Vajpeyi has published an interesting article:
>
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110412/jsp/opinion/story_13839253.jsp
>
> She offers her take on the real reasons why Gujarat and Maharashtra banned Lelyveld's book: To help suppress the ideas and values Gandhiji stood for and died for.
> Usama
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, CB <> wrote:
>
> > From: CB <>
> > Subject: Re: [SASIALIT] More and new Gandhi
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
> > the WSJ review was particularly
> > revolting. this morning Joseph Lelyveld was guest of Tom
> > Ashbrook on NPR
> >
> > http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/03/29/gandhi#disqus_thread
> >
> > and he responded to the review by saying he cannot be
> > responsible for what conclusions bitter and crude writers
> > draw from his book, but he, Lelyveld, certainly did not
> > reach to those conclusions.
> >
> > the banning and its location in Maharashtra is
> > predictable.
> > champa
> > ----- "anu kumar" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Banning season time again:
> > >
> > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharashtra-to-ban-controversial-book-on-gandhi/147475-40-100.html
> > >
> > > "Maharashtra government will initiate steps to ban
> > sale of a
> > > controversial book on Mahatma Gandhi by Pulitzer
> > prize-winning
> > > journalist Joseph Lelyveld."
> > >
> > > A furore for the most part set off by this:
> > >
>
)


> is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?

The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of contradictions and�difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of respecting him without�following his recommendations to the letter would need to be 'without sin'�before casting stones. There is no indication that the critics here are any�better than the people they criticise.

> everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi�


Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?

- a.s. )
i am not sure whom this criticism is leveled against - vajpeyi, the author of the article, or at lelyveld.
they are both saying very different things, making very different points, even though the article quotes him. neither are wrong.
indians don't own gandhi. it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book, particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many and continues to inspire them towards mass resistance and non-violence. one does not need any qualifications, or be a mahatma, to state this obvious point.

champa
----- "A S" <> wrote:

> > is there a point amidst all the rhetoric?
>
> The point would be obvious to most people. Gandhi was a man of
> contradictions and difficult prescriptions. Someone accusing people of
> respecting him without following his recommendations to the letter
> would need to be 'without sin' before casting stones. There is no
> indication that the critics here are any better than the people they
> criticise.
>
> > everybody is entitled to his opinion of gandhi 
>
>
> Is there a point to this non-sequitur ?
>
> - a.s.
)

..
> it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the reading public of india to ban the book,
> particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are respected by the world and has inspired many
...


�Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful to substitute any group for an assassin.
�============

Regards
-Srinivas
)
wasn't godse and apte part of the RSS and RSS was subsequently banned as a militant organization upon gandhi's murder?
godse was not mad. he has given ample evidence that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing and why.
champa
----- "Srini Nagul" <> wrote:

> ..
> > it is deeply disrespectful to him and his life as well as the
> reading public of india to ban the book,
> > particularly by a group that killed him for his ideas which are
> respected by the world and has inspired many
> ...
>
>
>  Untrue. No group killed him, just one mad one. Its more disrespectful
> to substitute any group for an assassin.
>  ============
>
> Regards
> -Srinivas
)


Assassin's could be part of any organization, they could be members of any organization.�

Giving evidence to support killing itself is enough evidence of sheer madness.�
===========
Regards
-Srinivas


----- Original Message -----
From: CB <>

> wasn't godse and apte part of the RSS and RSS was subsequently banned as a militant organization upon
> gandhi's murder?
> godse was not mad. he has given ample evidence that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing and why.
)
That makes all war sheer madness!
Couldn't agree more.
Latika

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 20, 2011, at 10:38, Srini Nagul <> wrote:



Assassin's could be part of any organization, they could be members of any organization.

Giving evidence to support killing itself is enough evidence of sheer madness.
===========
Regards
-Srinivas


----- Original Message -----
From: CB <>

wasn't godse and apte part of the RSS and RSS was subsequently banned as a militant organization upon
gandhi's murder?
godse was not mad. he has given ample evidence that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing and why.

)