Interesting concern from a person at a major company looking
at Java, post-Oracle. I am concerned that this is a not
uncommon thought process after the merger. How would
you respond to this?



---------- Forwarded message ---------


Hey Jon,
I would value your opinion. I'm working on a substantial program in
java that I will tell you about next week. My worry is the lack of
support and lack of access to source code from oracle now that they
bought sun. My program is heavy on 3D graphics and GUI but I'm unhappy
with the support for java3d, Swing, or JOGL. The alternatives I'm
finding (opensource) seem well supported but immature. Are you aware
of oracle's intent to restart support for the older packages or would
you recommend to go with the new stuff, eg, lwjgl and twl?
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Javamail mailing list. Go to http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail to subscribe.

My initial response(s):

1. Were you happy with the support Sun gave to 3D, Swing, and OGL
before the acquisition?
2. Are you proposing a grass-roots effort to (re)vitalize the FOSS
projects related to those?
3. If you can't get adequate help from Oracle, and also not from the
community, what are your options?

I too would love to see a good game-class, real-time, 3D rendering
engine (because I too fantasize about one day building a game or good
scientific visualization software....) We have some people here who are
involved in some of those open source efforts and I applaud them. Not
sure what impact PJUG could or should have on that kind of effort
though.
--
Richard Johnson

-----Original Message-----
From: javamail- [mailto:javamail-] On
Behalf Of Jon Batcheller
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 5:46 PM
To:
Subject: [PJUG Javamail] Fwd: Java sun and oracle

Interesting concern from a person at a major company looking
at Java, post-Oracle. I am concerned that this is a not
uncommon thought process after the merger. How would
you respond to this?



---------- Forwarded message ---------


Hey Jon,
I would value your opinion. I'm working on a substantial program in
java that I will tell you about next week. My worry is the lack of
support and lack of access to source code from oracle now that they
bought sun. My program is heavy on 3D graphics and GUI but I'm unhappy
with the support for java3d, Swing, or JOGL. The alternatives I'm
finding (opensource) seem well supported but immature. Are you aware
of oracle's intent to restart support for the older packages or would
you recommend to go with the new stuff, eg, lwjgl and twl?
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Javamail mailing list. Go to http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail to subscribe.

I forwarded this question to Dalibor Topic, Oracle's Java FOSS Ambassador
and his reply is below.

Thanks,

Gera

Java3D is Open Source for at least for 3-4 years.
http://java.net/projects/j3d-core/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?rev=954
,
http://java.net/projects/j3d-contrib-utils/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?rev=49
,
http://java.net/projects/j3d-core-utils/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?rev=208
,
http://java.net/projects/j3d-optional-utils/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?rev=38
...

Swing is part of OpenJDK is Open Source since 2007:
http://openjdk.java.net/groups/swing/

Information about commercial support for Oracle JDK is available at:
http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/java/java-for-business-071123.html

JOGL is Open Source:
http://java.net/projects/jogl/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?rev=2036




On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Jon Batcheller <>wrote:

> Interesting concern from a person at a major company looking
> at Java, post-Oracle. I am concerned that this is a not
> uncommon thought process after the merger. How would
> you respond to this?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>
>
> Hey Jon,
> I would value your opinion. I'm working on a substantial program in
> java that I will tell you about next week. My worry is the lack of
> support and lack of access to source code from oracle now that they
> bought sun. My program is heavy on 3D graphics and GUI but I'm unhappy
> with the support for java3d, Swing, or JOGL. The alternatives I'm
> finding (opensource) seem well supported but immature. Are you aware
> of oracle's intent to restart support for the older packages or would
> you recommend to go with the new stuff, eg, lwjgl and twl?
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Javamail mailing list. Go to http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail to subscribe.

Interesting non-answer to "How much support does/will Oracle provide?"

--

Richard Johnson

BTW: Thanks Talibor. I was digging for those links.





From: javamail- [mailto:javamail-] On
Behalf Of Gera Shegalov
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:21 AM
To: Jon Batcheller
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PJUG Javamail] Fwd: Java sun and oracle



I forwarded this question to Dalibor Topic, Oracle's Java FOSS
Ambassador and his reply is below.



Thanks,



Gera



Java3D is Open Source for at least for 3-4 years.
http://java.net/projects/j3d-core/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?
rev=954
?rev=954>
,
http://java.net/projects/j3d-contrib-utils/sources/svn/content/trunk/LIC
ENSE.txt?rev=49
CENSE.txt?rev=49>
,
http://java.net/projects/j3d-core-utils/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENS
E.txt?rev=208
SE.txt?rev=208>
,
http://java.net/projects/j3d-optional-utils/sources/svn/content/trunk/LI
CENSE.txt?rev=38
ICENSE.txt?rev=38>
...

Swing is part of OpenJDK is Open Source since 2007:
http://openjdk.java.net/groups/swing/


Information about commercial support for Oracle JDK is available at:
http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/java/java-for-business-071123.html
l>

JOGL is Open Source:
http://java.net/projects/jogl/sources/svn/content/trunk/LICENSE.txt?rev=
2036
=2036>







On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Jon Batcheller
<> wrote:

Interesting concern from a person at a major company looking
at Java, post-Oracle. I am concerned that this is a not
uncommon thought process after the merger. How would
you respond to this?



---------- Forwarded message ---------


Hey Jon,
I would value your opinion. I'm working on a substantial program in
java that I will tell you about next week. My worry is the lack of
support and lack of access to source code from oracle now that they
bought sun. My program is heavy on 3D graphics and GUI but I'm unhappy
with the support for java3d, Swing, or JOGL. The alternatives I'm
finding (opensource) seem well supported but immature. Are you aware
of oracle's intent to restart support for the older packages or would
you recommend to go with the new stuff, eg, lwjgl and twl?
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Javamail mailing list. Go to http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail to subscribe.

>
> Interesting non-answer to "How much support does/will
> Oracle provide?"

Pretty much says it all actually. Hey, you want support? Now you can do it yourself! Nothing to stop you. It's a feature!
IBM got really good at doing this a few years ago when they decided to "lighten their load".
My question to this would be how much effort will Oracle have in managing/partaking in the Open Source process? Often times Open Source becomes synonymous with "we don't want to pay for this any more." Without some folks officially dedicated to these concerns I'm afraid they stand a real chance of dying on the vine.
Open Source is great in concept, but you can't pay your rent on concept.



_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Javamail mailing list. Go to http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail to subscribe.

Karl sayeth:

" Often times Open Source becomes synonymous with "we don't want to pay
" for this anymore." Without some folks officially dedicated to these
" concerns I'm afraid they stand a real chance of dying on the vine.
" Open Source is great in concept, but you can't pay your rent on
concept."

I think that failing to provide direction and oversight poses the
greater danger (to Oracle) of the FOSS portions wandering off into new,
uncharted, unprofitable, and unmanageable lands. That might be good for
we who use, but maybe not so good for a company that wants to claim a
brand and claim a full tool suite. If they let the bird leave the nest
it will build its own nest.

I noticed yesterday that Oracle has updated/replaced many of the UI
libraries in OpenOffice with (at least for XP) MS Visual C++ libraries.
That probably says as much about how they really feel about Java as the
previous no-comments.
--
Richard Johnson
speaking *only* for myself and not any other body or entity
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Javamail mailing list

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)

Coincidentally, just got my posting of TheServerSide that has this article:
http://tinyurl.com/4bmer77

>>
James Gosling, considered the father of Java, said during his keynote session at the Java Symposium that it is in Oracle’s own interest to “not be really aggressively stupid.” But he said it’s been clear that Oracle didn’t exactly know what it was getting into with the acquisition of Java.

“It’s been clear that they didn’t understand what they bought; what it meant to deal with communities and people, and all the arguing and discussion and consensus building that’s involved in communities,” he said.
<<

But I hope he's right. I think it's in Oracles' best interest to "figure it out".



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