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On Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 10:12:40AM +0100, Joerg Wunsch wrote:
> Hello,
>
> my wife bought a new laptop as here old one is breaking into pieces.
> It's a Dell laptop using a graphics device that is intetgrated into
> the CPU package (PCI ID 0x0046/0x8086). Some investigation reveals
> that X.org's Intel driver branch 2.8 appears to offer support for
> this, while the FreeBSD port is still at 2.7.1. I tried to do a
> "quick upgrade" of the port locally, but cannot get it to either patch
> (several patches fail to apply), or after removing all patches, to
> compile.
>
> Before I start a hunk-to-hunk analysis of the existing patches to see
> what's needed and what has to be removed (because it's already part of
> the X.org sources), did anyone already do this?
>
> The issue is moderately urgent, because if I cannot get X.org to run
> on the laptop, we have to return it to the seller within a couple of
> weeks.
> --
> cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL
>
> http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
> Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

Which chipset?
I guess it probably needs GEM support to work.
Currenty there's no support for it on FreeBSD.

Nice summary about GEM here:
http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=25122+0+archive/2010/freebsd-x11/20101031.freebsd-x11

Ingvar
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. Hello,

my wife bought a new laptop as here old one is breaking into pieces.
It's a Dell laptop using a graphics device that is intetgrated into
the CPU package (PCI ID 0x0046/0x8086). Some investigation reveals
that X.org's Intel driver branch 2.8 appears to offer support for
this, while the FreeBSD port is still at 2.7.1. I tried to do a
"quick upgrade" of the port locally, but cannot get it to either patch
(several patches fail to apply), or after removing all patches, to
compile.

Before I start a hunk-to-hunk analysis of the existing patches to see
what's needed and what has to be removed (because it's already part of
the X.org sources), did anyone already do this?

The issue is moderately urgent, because if I cannot get X.org to run
on the laptop, we have to return it to the seller within a couple of
weeks.
--
cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL

http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. As Ingvar Harjaks wrote:

> Which chipset?

I have troubles figuring out what all the different names actually
stand for ... If I figured it out correctly, it's either G45 or
GMA X4500.

> I guess it probably needs GEM support to work.
> Currenty there's no support for it on FreeBSD.

OK, that would mean to return the laptop then. I don't want to start
maintaining a different OS just for that.

Does perhaps anyone have another recommendation for a stat-of-the-art
Dell notebook that works well with FreeBSD (at least from the X11
perspective)? That way, we could perhaps have it replaced at the
dealer, rather than a complete return.

--
cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL

http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. Joerg Wunsch () [11.01.05 15:23] wrote:
> Does perhaps anyone have another recommendation for a stat-of-the-art
> Dell notebook that works well with FreeBSD (at least from the X11
> perspective)? That way, we could perhaps have it replaced at the
> dealer, rather than a complete return.
>
may be it's stupid but what about vesa driver? should work

i faced the same problem about one year with asus eeepc 1001p ... and
was forced to install there slackware (since it is much like freebsd)
... and now waiting for native freebsd support to change the os :)

it's sad to know the issue is not changed :(

--
Zeus V. Panchenko
IT Dpt., IBS ltd GMT+2 (EET)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. I have been told on another thread that FreeBSD does not support any recent
laptop. NVidia switchable graphics is not supported, any recent ATI video
cards are not supported and any graphic card that comes with i-series CPUs
are not supported either. So we are basically in big trouble until this get
fixed (hopefully this will happen very very soon, but I have no clue). The
only solution right now is to use the Vesa driver, but this is pretty
useless to get a new laptop and not being able to use its GPU...

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Joerg Wunsch <> wrote:

> As Ingvar Harjaks wrote:
>
> > Which chipset?
>
> I have troubles figuring out what all the different names actually
> stand for ... If I figured it out correctly, it's either G45 or
> GMA X4500.
>
> > I guess it probably needs GEM support to work.
> > Currenty there's no support for it on FreeBSD.
>
> OK, that would mean to return the laptop then. I don't want to start
> maintaining a different OS just for that.
>
> Does perhaps anyone have another recommendation for a stat-of-the-art
> Dell notebook that works well with FreeBSD (at least from the X11
> perspective)? That way, we could perhaps have it replaced at the
> dealer, rather than a complete return.
>
> --
> cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL
>
> http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
> Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. On Wed, 5 Jan 2011, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote:

> I have been told on another thread that FreeBSD does not support any recent
> laptop. NVidia switchable graphics is not supported, any recent ATI video
> cards are not supported and any graphic card that comes with i-series CPUs
> are not supported either.

"Recent" is relative. Radeon 4xxx-series graphics should work,
5xxx-series should be better than vesa.

A dive into the horrible Dell web site seems to indicate a Vostro 1088
has a Radeon 4530. Web searching indicates some of the Inspirons with
i3 processors can be had with Radeon 4xxx-series graphics. Many Dells
have nVidia, but I have not paid attention to which of those work and
which do not.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. On 01/05/2011 06:29 AM, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote:
> I have been told on another thread that FreeBSD does not support any recent
> laptop. NVidia switchable graphics is not supported, any recent ATI video
> cards are not supported and any graphic card that comes with i-series CPUs
> are not supported either. So we are basically in big trouble until this get
> fixed (hopefully this will happen very very soon, but I have no clue). The
> only solution right now is to use the Vesa driver, but this is pretty
> useless to get a new laptop and not being able to use its GPU...

This is nothing new. Laptops tend to use bleeding edge hardware and
FreeBSD doesn't support bleeding edge very well. We are constantly
playing catchup. It's not that we don't support the hardware, it's that
the hardware manufacturers do not support FreeBSD, or even Open Source
for that matter. Linux does not have this problem to the same degree
since there are current proprietary drivers to fall back on.

Please don't blame FreeBSD for this, blame the hardware manufacturers.

--
David Johnson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:12 AM, Joerg Wunsch <> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> my wife bought a new laptop as here old one is breaking into pieces.
> It's a Dell laptop using a graphics device that is intetgrated into
> the CPU package (PCI ID 0x0046/0x8086). Some investigation reveals
> that X.org's Intel driver branch 2.8 appears to offer support for
> this, while the FreeBSD port is still at 2.7.1. I tried to do a
> "quick upgrade" of the port locally, but cannot get it to either patch
> (several patches fail to apply), or after removing all patches, to
> compile.
>
> Before I start a hunk-to-hunk analysis of the existing patches to see
> what's needed and what has to be removed (because it's already part of
> the X.org sources), did anyone already do this?
>
> The issue is moderately urgent, because if I cannot get X.org to run
> on the laptop, we have to return it to the seller within a couple of
> weeks.
> --
> cheers, J"org

If you write exact name of your CPU such as ones specified on pages

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7ee/mobile/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7/mobile/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei5/mobile/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei3/mobile/index.htm

These processors have integrated graphics .

Then , it will be possible that the persons knowing these processors and
their integrated graphics chips , will be able to give satisfactory answers
to your questions .

Also exact model name of laptop will be useful .

Thank you very much .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. As Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:

> If you write exact name of your CPU such as ones specified on pages
>
> http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7ee/mobile/index.htm
> http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7/mobile/index.htm
> http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei5/mobile/index.htm
> http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei3/mobile/index.htm

The laptop is labelled "Core i5", and the boot messages say:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 460 @ 2.53GHz (2537.13-MHz 686-class CPU)
Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x20655 Stepping = 5
Features=0xbfebfbff
Features2=0x9ae3bd,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT>
AMD Features=0x28100000
AMD Features2=0x1
TSC: P-state invariant

The link you gave mentions "2nd generation", and availability as of
02-2011, so I looked around a bit, and found:

http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?familyID=43483&MarketSegment=MBL

So I think it's an i5-460M.

(If anyone wants the full boot messages, I can of course sent those.)

> Also exact model name of laptop will be useful .

When I wrote the first message, I haven't been at home so I could not
lookup the exact model. Now, back home, I can. It's a DELL Vostro
3700. Googling for it reveals that apparently, some of those are sold
with a "hybrid graphics" where the CPU-internal graphics is
accompanied by another nVidia graphics board, but our model doesn't
appear to feature this.

The pciconf -lv entry of the VGA is:

vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0: class=0x030000 card=0x04421028 chip=0x00468086 rev=0x18 hdr=0x00
vendor = 'Intel Corporation'
class = display
subclass = VGA

I see a mention of this PCI ID in the X.org driver code starting with
the Intel video driver version 2.8:

(src/common.h)

#ifndef PCI_CHIP_IGDNG_M_G
#define PCI_CHIP_IGDNG_M_G 0x0046
#define PCI_CHIP_IGDNG_M_G_BRIDGE 0x0044
#endif

(And it's not only these #defines, they are actually used in the code
then.)

That's why I assumed it would perhaps be possible to tweak that 2.8
driver (even though I know it's still far behind the current X.org
version) to compile.

The VESA driver doesn't start up because it cannot find any usable
mode. That's probably due to the widescreen mode this display has
(1600 x 900 pixels). Maybe I could generate a modeline for that to
make it work as a start, to bridge the time until the more recent
X.org support is available in FreeBSD. However, for obvious reasons,
I'd only do that as a stop-gap measure, if it's clear that it will
eventually be supported in the forseeable future. (3D acceleration
support is not crucial for us, it's basically an office machine, but
2D is.)

Thanks for all the help and ideas so far!
--
cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL

http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. As Ingvar Harjaks wrote:

> Check the release notes and man pages for new hardware before buying
> it.

Well, it's been a kind of "last minute buy", to save some taxes by
buying it in the old financial year still. Otherwise, I'd have
researched a little more beforehand.

> Radeon looks the most supported driver on FreeBSD.

OK, in case we have to return the current device, I'll keep an eye on
that.

--
cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL

http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Joerg Wunsch <> wrote:

> As Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:
>
> > If you write exact name of your CPU such as ones specified on pages
> >
> > http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7ee/mobile/index.htm
> > http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7/mobile/index.htm
> > http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei5/mobile/index.htm
> > http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei3/mobile/index.htm
>
> The laptop is labelled "Core i5", and the boot messages say:
>
> CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 460 @ 2.53GHz (2537.13-MHz 686-class
> CPU)
> Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x20655 Stepping = 5
>
> Features=0xbfebfbff
>
> Features2=0x9ae3bd,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT>
> AMD Features=0x28100000
> AMD Features2=0x1
> TSC: P-state invariant
>
> The link you gave mentions "2nd generation", and availability as of
> 02-2011, so I looked around a bit, and found:
>
>
> http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?familyID=43483&MarketSegment=MBL
>
> So I think it's an i5-460M.
>
> (If anyone wants the full boot messages, I can of course sent those.)
>
> > Also exact model name of laptop will be useful .
>
> When I wrote the first message, I haven't been at home so I could not
> lookup the exact model. Now, back home, I can. It's a DELL Vostro
> 3700. Googling for it reveals that apparently, some of those are sold
> with a "hybrid graphics" where the CPU-internal graphics is
> accompanied by another nVidia graphics board, but our model doesn't
> appear to feature this.
>
> The pciconf -lv entry of the VGA is:
>
> vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0: class=0x030000 card=0x04421028 chip=0x00468086
> rev=0x18 hdr=0x00
> vendor = 'Intel Corporation'
> class = display
> subclass = VGA
>
> I see a mention of this PCI ID in the X.org driver code starting with
> the Intel video driver version 2.8:
>
> (src/common.h)
>
> #ifndef PCI_CHIP_IGDNG_M_G
> #define PCI_CHIP_IGDNG_M_G 0x0046
> #define PCI_CHIP_IGDNG_M_G_BRIDGE 0x0044
> #endif
>
> (And it's not only these #defines, they are actually used in the code
> then.)
>
> That's why I assumed it would perhaps be possible to tweak that 2.8
> driver (even though I know it's still far behind the current X.org
> version) to compile.
>
> The VESA driver doesn't start up because it cannot find any usable
> mode. That's probably due to the widescreen mode this display has
> (1600 x 900 pixels). Maybe I could generate a modeline for that to
> make it work as a start, to bridge the time until the more recent
> X.org support is available in FreeBSD. However, for obvious reasons,
> I'd only do that as a stop-gap measure, if it's clear that it will
> eventually be supported in the forseeable future. (3D acceleration
> support is not crucial for us, it's basically an office machine, but
> 2D is.)
>
> Thanks for all the help and ideas so far!
> --
> cheers, J"org
>

Asus in the following page is listing main board names which they are usable
by some ( Fedora , OpenSuse , RedHat , Ubuntu ) Linux distributions :

http://www.asus.com/websites/global/aboutasus/OS/Linux.pdf

Boards , for example ,

P7H55D-M EVO
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=LZtx6p7WKTP77rsk&templete=2

P7H55D-M PRO
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=qWmZUAdNKeozTOXb&templete=2

P7H55-Mhttp://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=LMLbQEr6R3s5yCLg&templete=2

are using graphics integrated CPUs .

This means that , if you install a suitable Linux , its name selected from
the above Linux.pdf , you may be able to use a graphical environment for a
while .

Later on , when you verify that FreeBSD may use your current hardware , you
may switch to it . KDE or GNOME environments are similar in FreeBSD and
Linux .

If it is suitable for you , you may create a partition about FreeBSD ( up to
now never I did it , I do not know how can it be done ) and , by using
information from Linux drivers , you may develop a working FreeBSD driver
set .

Thank you very much .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. As Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:

> This means that , if you install a suitable Linux , its name
> selected from the above Linux.pdf , you may be able to use a
> graphical environment for a while .

Well, that might be used for some development work, but when the
laptop goes into productional work for my wife, it has to run FreeBSD
as otherwise, I'd have to learn all the maintenance stuff anew, have
to find where I get all the packages she needs, have to learn how to
integrate it into my site backup, etc. pp. By staying with FreeBSD,
however I could easily migrate her current environment without much
hassle.

> KDE or GNOME environments are similar in FreeBSD and
> Linux .

KDE or Gnome are not even used here (she uses plain fvwm, believe it
or not ;-). It's all the other stuff around, each and every of the
current applications.

> If it is suitable for you , you may create a partition about FreeBSD
> ( up to now never I did it , I do not know how can it be done ) and
> , by using information from Linux drivers , you may develop a
> working FreeBSD driver set .

The question is how much work this would likely going to be. If
nobody even started, and I have to start from scratch developing a
kernel driver, I'm afraid this is far beyond the resources I could
spend into this. Spending all my sparetime for a couple of weeks is
OK, spending half a year isn't.

How would I know whether the Intel driver version 2.8 requires GEM
support or not? The only mention I can find in the NEWS file for GEM
is:

Some of the major fixes in this snapshot include:

...
* Fix X server failure when running old (non-GEM) kernel

That would suggest to me this version can work without GEM support.
--
cheers, J"org .-.-. --... ...-- -.. . DL8DTL

http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Freebsd-x11 mailing list. Go to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 to subscribe. On 01/05/2011 22:02, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote:
> I would be interested by the T410s, that can be ordered with the Intel
> Centrino Wireless-N 1000 card and the NVIDIA NVS Optimus Graphics 512MB
> (I am not sure if it is the same GPU that you have). Assuming for now
> that the Nvidia GPU is the same, do you think that would be a winning
> combo (for 3D acceleration and suspend+resume)?

My T510 has "NVIDIA NVS 3100M Optimus / 512MB", which is the same as the
two T410s with Nvidia I just checked. It is supposed to be a decent
entry level discrete notebook graphic. The FreeBSD 3D performance is
good enough for what I do work related like occasional Matlab graphics
(heck, even a casual game of Starcraft 2 on 1920x1080 is fine with i386
wine on amd64 and GoogleEarth is no problem, either). Of course, the
"Quadro FX880M" in the W510 is probably much better, but since you are
looking into T410s, you seem to have other priorities. As I said,
suspend/resume works currently -- that is of course S3 and not S4 (I do
not think there are recent laptops with S4BIOS).

As for wlan, I have "Intel WiFi Link 6300 AGN", which is available for
T410s, too -- that is some "Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 6000" if you look into
if_iwn.c. In 8.1-RELEASE, there are also two lines of "Intel(R)
PRO/Wireless 1000" in if_iwn.c -- I would expect "Centrino Wireless-N
1000" to work. Of course, I do not have any experience with that.

Do not expect a miracle, though. Many details of notebooks are much
easier to get to work on Linux for example, but a mainline OS would be
boring. ;-)

Cheers,
Jan Henrik
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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