REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

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2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

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______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end
of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
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Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

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Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
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> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
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______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
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> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Marshall and John and everyone:

Can¹t say I¹ve found a good cataloguing program; there are a several OK
archiving programs around, but nothing I¹d invest more than 30 bucks on.

HOWEVER...on the preservation of books I have a little information. I am not
objective, since I worked on the rollout of this product¹s marketing
campaign, but it will stop acidification of paper.

It¹s called PaperSaver, created in Berkeley by chemist and inventor Joe
Zicherman and Ginny Roemer. It was originally developed for the book
conservation market: special collections, libraries, book arts
professionals. Ginny and I convinced Joe that there¹s also a market for the
gazillions of pieces of ephemera floating from generation to
generation‹especially now. It¹s one of several safe sprays on the market
(also available in pump bottles) and passes all the environmental standards.
I trust it, and before it was released to the marketplace, I trusted it
enough to spray several folio-sized engravings from a dismantled (before I
received it) Dutch Lutheran bible printed in 1702-03. Stopped the
disintegration process flat. It also works on photos.

www.scrapbook-archivers.com/
www.paper-preservation.com/products_services.html

Preservation is tedious stuff, but worth it if you value your collection.
Another (also tedious) way to slow down deterioration is to interleave with
the appropriate sheets...which will vary depending on the pages to be
preserved. I could probably get them less expensively elsewhere, but I trust
the products sold by Light Impressions and Archival Methods. You¹ll probably
have to cut sheets down a bit on odd-sized books. I borrowed some
neighborhood kids on a couple of rainy afternoons last year to help. I told
them they were in charge of the heritage of books, and reverence ensued.

www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

The Library of Congress has great info on preservation. One among many
online articles:
www.loc.gov/preserv/care/photolea.html


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe.

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______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

_______________________________________________
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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
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> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Marshall and John and everyone:

Can¹t say I¹ve found a good cataloguing program; there are a several OK
archiving programs around, but nothing I¹d invest more than 30 bucks on.

HOWEVER...on the preservation of books I have a little information. I am not
objective, since I worked on the rollout of this product¹s marketing
campaign, but it will stop acidification of paper.

It¹s called PaperSaver, created in Berkeley by chemist and inventor Joe
Zicherman and Ginny Roemer. It was originally developed for the book
conservation market: special collections, libraries, book arts
professionals. Ginny and I convinced Joe that there¹s also a market for the
gazillions of pieces of ephemera floating from generation to
generation‹especially now. It¹s one of several safe sprays on the market
(also available in pump bottles) and passes all the environmental standards.
I trust it, and before it was released to the marketplace, I trusted it
enough to spray several folio-sized engravings from a dismantled (before I
received it) Dutch Lutheran bible printed in 1702-03. Stopped the
disintegration process flat. It also works on photos.

www.scrapbook-archivers.com/
www.paper-preservation.com/products_services.html

Preservation is tedious stuff, but worth it if you value your collection.
Another (also tedious) way to slow down deterioration is to interleave with
the appropriate sheets...which will vary depending on the pages to be
preserved. I could probably get them less expensively elsewhere, but I trust
the products sold by Light Impressions and Archival Methods. You¹ll probably
have to cut sheets down a bit on odd-sized books. I borrowed some
neighborhood kids on a couple of rainy afternoons last year to help. I told
them they were in charge of the heritage of books, and reverence ensued.

www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

The Library of Congress has great info on preservation. One among many
online articles:
www.loc.gov/preserv/care/photolea.html


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Agree that scanning, to date, is the best solution.


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:29:56 -0800
To: Marshall Rafferty <>
Cc: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

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Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

_______________________________________________
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...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
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______
Marshall and John and everyone:

Can¹t say I¹ve found a good cataloguing program; there are a several OK
archiving programs around, but nothing I¹d invest more than 30 bucks on.

HOWEVER...on the preservation of books I have a little information. I am not
objective, since I worked on the rollout of this product¹s marketing
campaign, but it will stop acidification of paper.

It¹s called PaperSaver, created in Berkeley by chemist and inventor Joe
Zicherman and Ginny Roemer. It was originally developed for the book
conservation market: special collections, libraries, book arts
professionals. Ginny and I convinced Joe that there¹s also a market for the
gazillions of pieces of ephemera floating from generation to
generation‹especially now. It¹s one of several safe sprays on the market
(also available in pump bottles) and passes all the environmental standards.
I trust it, and before it was released to the marketplace, I trusted it
enough to spray several folio-sized engravings from a dismantled (before I
received it) Dutch Lutheran bible printed in 1702-03. Stopped the
disintegration process flat. It also works on photos.

www.scrapbook-archivers.com/
www.paper-preservation.com/products_services.html

Preservation is tedious stuff, but worth it if you value your collection.
Another (also tedious) way to slow down deterioration is to interleave with
the appropriate sheets...which will vary depending on the pages to be
preserved. I could probably get them less expensively elsewhere, but I trust
the products sold by Light Impressions and Archival Methods. You¹ll probably
have to cut sheets down a bit on odd-sized books. I borrowed some
neighborhood kids on a couple of rainy afternoons last year to help. I told
them they were in charge of the heritage of books, and reverence ensued.

www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

The Library of Congress has great info on preservation. One among many
online articles:
www.loc.gov/preserv/care/photolea.html


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
Agree that scanning, to date, is the best solution.


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:29:56 -0800
To: Marshall Rafferty <>
Cc: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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Wicked Melani!

But it reminds me to find someone to foist the responsibility to. My great
fear: the the appointed person won¹t get to my computer and destroy it
before all the skeletons are revealed. My greater fear: that something
horrible will happen to The Books. I don¹t need an executor for me, I need
one for The Books.



From: Melani Van Petten <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:45:43 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

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______
Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

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...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end
of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Marshall and John and everyone:

Can¹t say I¹ve found a good cataloguing program; there are a several OK
archiving programs around, but nothing I¹d invest more than 30 bucks on.

HOWEVER...on the preservation of books I have a little information. I am not
objective, since I worked on the rollout of this product¹s marketing
campaign, but it will stop acidification of paper.

It¹s called PaperSaver, created in Berkeley by chemist and inventor Joe
Zicherman and Ginny Roemer. It was originally developed for the book
conservation market: special collections, libraries, book arts
professionals. Ginny and I convinced Joe that there¹s also a market for the
gazillions of pieces of ephemera floating from generation to
generation‹especially now. It¹s one of several safe sprays on the market
(also available in pump bottles) and passes all the environmental standards.
I trust it, and before it was released to the marketplace, I trusted it
enough to spray several folio-sized engravings from a dismantled (before I
received it) Dutch Lutheran bible printed in 1702-03. Stopped the
disintegration process flat. It also works on photos.

www.scrapbook-archivers.com/
www.paper-preservation.com/products_services.html

Preservation is tedious stuff, but worth it if you value your collection.
Another (also tedious) way to slow down deterioration is to interleave with
the appropriate sheets...which will vary depending on the pages to be
preserved. I could probably get them less expensively elsewhere, but I trust
the products sold by Light Impressions and Archival Methods. You¹ll probably
have to cut sheets down a bit on odd-sized books. I borrowed some
neighborhood kids on a couple of rainy afternoons last year to help. I told
them they were in charge of the heritage of books, and reverence ensued.

www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

The Library of Congress has great info on preservation. One among many
online articles:
www.loc.gov/preserv/care/photolea.html


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
______
Agree that scanning, to date, is the best solution.


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:29:56 -0800
To: Marshall Rafferty <>
Cc: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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of message
______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Wicked Melani!

But it reminds me to find someone to foist the responsibility to. My great
fear: the the appointed person won¹t get to my computer and destroy it
before all the skeletons are revealed. My greater fear: that something
horrible will happen to The Books. I don¹t need an executor for me, I need
one for The Books.



From: Melani Van Petten <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:45:43 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Scuttlebutt mailing list. Go to http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/listinfo.cgi/scuttlebutt-sea-room-plus.com to subscribe. REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

I thought I amended this last night, but my reply only came to me!
Geez I hate this configuration.

What I really should have said was that to save photos (at least the
ones worth saving), keep a high quality digital scan, but also a very
good copy negative which will likely outlive the original photo.

Marshall
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I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

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Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

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...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
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Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
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...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

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Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
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Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

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______
Marshall and John and everyone:

Can¹t say I¹ve found a good cataloguing program; there are a several OK
archiving programs around, but nothing I¹d invest more than 30 bucks on.

HOWEVER...on the preservation of books I have a little information. I am not
objective, since I worked on the rollout of this product¹s marketing
campaign, but it will stop acidification of paper.

It¹s called PaperSaver, created in Berkeley by chemist and inventor Joe
Zicherman and Ginny Roemer. It was originally developed for the book
conservation market: special collections, libraries, book arts
professionals. Ginny and I convinced Joe that there¹s also a market for the
gazillions of pieces of ephemera floating from generation to
generation‹especially now. It¹s one of several safe sprays on the market
(also available in pump bottles) and passes all the environmental standards.
I trust it, and before it was released to the marketplace, I trusted it
enough to spray several folio-sized engravings from a dismantled (before I
received it) Dutch Lutheran bible printed in 1702-03. Stopped the
disintegration process flat. It also works on photos.

www.scrapbook-archivers.com/
www.paper-preservation.com/products_services.html

Preservation is tedious stuff, but worth it if you value your collection.
Another (also tedious) way to slow down deterioration is to interleave with
the appropriate sheets...which will vary depending on the pages to be
preserved. I could probably get them less expensively elsewhere, but I trust
the products sold by Light Impressions and Archival Methods. You¹ll probably
have to cut sheets down a bit on odd-sized books. I borrowed some
neighborhood kids on a couple of rainy afternoons last year to help. I told
them they were in charge of the heritage of books, and reverence ensued.

www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

The Library of Congress has great info on preservation. One among many
online articles:
www.loc.gov/preserv/care/photolea.html


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
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Agree that scanning, to date, is the best solution.


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:29:56 -0800
To: Marshall Rafferty <>
Cc: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
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Wicked Melani!

But it reminds me to find someone to foist the responsibility to. My great
fear: the the appointed person won¹t get to my computer and destroy it
before all the skeletons are revealed. My greater fear: that something
horrible will happen to The Books. I don¹t need an executor for me, I need
one for The Books.



From: Melani Van Petten <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:45:43 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
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> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
>
>

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

I thought I amended this last night, but my reply only came to me!
Geez I hate this configuration.

What I really should have said was that to save photos (at least the
ones worth saving), keep a high quality digital scan, but also a very
good copy negative which will likely outlive the original photo.

Marshall
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...
From: Deb Carlen [mailto:]

> You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know
> that a film is-even as I type-being produced of John Carter
> of Mars? Set for release in 2012, but I think shooting is
> finished.

The SciFi channel aired a version of "A Princess of Mars" several months back. Rather low budget, with Carter being a current-day US Army soldier in Afghanistan and creature effects being minimal. It was not well received.

Ron Wanttaja
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I second that welcome, as has been done by others!

I have several nice reference books I use. Several of the most useful, to
me, are:

Nelson's Navy, by Brian Lavery. An excellent overview and superlative
general introduction. The best overview of the service and its complexities in
this list, IMO.

Goodwin, Peter. The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War.
Naval Institute Press.

Gardiner, Robert (ed). The Line of Battle: The Sailing Warship 1650-1840.
Conway's History of the Ship. Conway Maritime Press, Chartwell Books Inc.,
1992. ISBN 0-7858-1267-9

The Masting and Rigging of the English Ship of War 1625-1860 by James
Lees (I'd cite an ISBN, but I can't find my copy at the moment)

Marquardt, Karl Heinz. Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging. Conway Maritime
Press, 1992.

These books, to me, are essential to understanding the warships of the
period. They're also useful for understanding how things got to be as they
were, since Jack is, as we know, firmly rooted in the past of his profession as
well as in its technical possibilities.

It was not until I had studied them that I understood just how technically
complicated these ships were, and, by extension, that understanding changed
my entire perspective on such things and on our place in the world.

Pete
Port Ludlow WA
on the hard, but a'building today


In a message dated 11/10/2010 11:53:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

Congratulations Deb, it would seem that your interest and enthusiasm has
revitalized the list.

i know there have been a lot of suggestions for your RN reading list.

Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" is most scholarly - as is (Scuttlebutt's
own) Janet Macdonald's "FEEDING Nelson's Navy"

Welcome!

Jim

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Completely ignored that when thinking about the comparison...you are of
course correct!


In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:49:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

...and how lacking in any ability to communicate with the rest of the
world
for weeks or months on end, e.g. to call for help. At least the shuttle is
in permanent telecommunication.

Rif

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...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....

Ron Wanttaja
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Okay, now my non-tech status is showing and I am confused. Ron, you
appear to be quoting somebody, but I think I missed the original post.
/Wawona/ is of course SF Maritime's steam schooner, and the /C.A.
Thayer, /when she was re-rigged to become a museum ship, has the /Sophie
Christiensen's /rig. Or did have--she's being re-rigged once again,
after the work on the deckhouses is complete. Come and see us!

Melani

/ /On 11/12/10 9:08 AM, Wanttaja, Ronald J wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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> ______
> ...
>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scuttlebutt-
> [mailto:scuttlebutt-] On
> Ron, you appear to be quoting
> somebody, but I think I missed the original post.

I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

Ron Wanttaja
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics; kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

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______
Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen the new
TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black letter gothic font)
the "final disposition of my collection."

I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
cataloging them.

Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection so
others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you all if
you have one?

John
(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)


> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at
> end of message
> ______
> ...
>>
>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>
> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>
> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
> book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
> wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting
> to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem
> with my Kindle.
>
> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own
> are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books,
> the publishers have made them available for free download.
>
> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
> books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
> scarfed up for free.
>
> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
> available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
> casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage
> around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White
> Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne
> waiting for me....
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
Is it possible to read unwisely? Naaaah! There¹s always some good to come of
it, even if only learning what authors to retire from the to be read list.

You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know that a film is‹even
as I type‹being produced of John Carter of Mars? Set for release in 2012,
but I think shooting is finished.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/

Didn¹t discover that series until I was Almost Grown, but for sheer
escapism, it¹s fun.

Good point about Project Gutenberg making so much available for Kindle and
other readers, and great feedback on the Kindle.

Deb



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
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of message
______
...
>
> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...

Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)

On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a physical
book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would say, not
wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of books waiting to
go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two back. Not a problem with my
Kindle.

There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I own are
just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older books, the
publishers have made them available for free download.

Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen or so
books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites that I
scarfed up for free.

Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free books
available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are books I had a
casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print copy or rummage around
in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan Doyle's "White Company,"
Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a stack of Verne waiting for
me....

Ron Wanttaja
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)
>
>
>> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
>> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL
>> http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options
>> at end of message
>> ______
>> ...
>>>
>>> I may have mentioned that one of my uncles sailed on both the
>>> Wawona and the schooner Sophie Christensen out of Seattle
>>> during the 1030s out in the Gulf of Alaska...
>>
>> Guess those Vikings DID go everywhere! :-)
>>
>> On the e-book front, I share folks' appreciation for reading a
>> physical book, but I love my Kindle. I read a *lot* (and, some would
>> say, not wisely) which means I normally would end up with stacks of
>> books waiting to go to the used bookstore to get a penny or two
>> back. Not a problem with my Kindle.
>>
>> There are also some books I read over and over again. The copies I
>> own are just paperbacks, no collector value. On some of these older
>> books, the publishers have made them available for free download.
>>
>> Went on a long trip recently, and it was a comfort to carry a dozen
>> or so books along in just a tiny package. Plus those older favorites
>> that I scarfed up for free.
>>
>> Finally, Project Gutenberg has made a lot of older, copyright-free
>> books available for downloading in a variety of formats. Some are
>> books I had a casual interest in, but not enough to buy a new-print
>> copy or rummage around in the used bookstore. I've now read Conan
>> Doyle's "White Company," Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars," and have a
>> stack of Verne waiting for me....
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

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______
On 11/12/10 8:08 PM, Marshall Rafferty wrote:
> REPLY sent only to message author;REPLY ALL, to entire list.
> 2Nov2010--temporary note: to unsubscribe go to URL http://lists.sea-room-plus.com/, select SCUTTLEBUTT from list options at end of message
> ______
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:
>
>
>> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>> cataloging them.
>>
> So far I have found very few books that I want in electronic form.
>
Melani
> One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
> format in our lifetime.
>
> While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
> serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
> digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.
>
> So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
> resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
> lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.
>
> Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
> ever scanned.
>
>
>> John
>> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>>
> Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
> lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
> preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
> photos themselves safe as long as you can.
>
> Marshall Rafferty
> _______________________________________________
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Got a chuckle about the 1030s but this week has worked ill on me and I felt
kind of like I was from the 1030s...

It is of course about the words, but it is a terrible shame that quality
printing seems more and more difficult to find. Though I am moving slowly
through the book, Tolstoy¹s first in the POB biography is beautifully
printed. And while we¹re on the lee shore of the topic, whatever happened to
colophons in books? I say, Œkeep type geeks off the streets and add a
colophon to every book.¹

The postcard is an instant time traveler. Loved the ship, and the hearty
request to Œhave a cold one¹ for him.

Deb



From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:28:28 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:14:08 -0800, Ron wrote:

>I was chiming in on both the "Recommended Books" and the "Kindle" topics;
kidding Marshall about a typo in his original posting. See the "Recommended
Books" thread for postings about the Wawona.

I wondered if anyone would catch that "1030s"!

I wasn't aware that there was a second Wawona, much less a steam
schooner. I'll have to find out what one of those is. I also didn't
know any of the Sophie Christensen's parts still existed.

Seattle's Wawona was broken up last year. Need any knees?

Speaking of e-books, I have the Barnes/Noble e-reader and love it. I
don't get into arguments about "stuff," so I'll say I think the Nook
and the Kindle are both fine devices. Much easier for me to read
than a yellowing paperback or a new book with oddly uneven spreads of
ink, or toner, or whatever they're using. By and large, books to me
are about words.

By the way, here are a couple of views of a postcard which my uncle
sent from Unalaska during one of his fishing jobs:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_f.jpg

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mrafferty/main/images/sophie_c_b_small.jpg


Marshall

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Marshall and John and everyone:

Can¹t say I¹ve found a good cataloguing program; there are a several OK
archiving programs around, but nothing I¹d invest more than 30 bucks on.

HOWEVER...on the preservation of books I have a little information. I am not
objective, since I worked on the rollout of this product¹s marketing
campaign, but it will stop acidification of paper.

It¹s called PaperSaver, created in Berkeley by chemist and inventor Joe
Zicherman and Ginny Roemer. It was originally developed for the book
conservation market: special collections, libraries, book arts
professionals. Ginny and I convinced Joe that there¹s also a market for the
gazillions of pieces of ephemera floating from generation to
generation‹especially now. It¹s one of several safe sprays on the market
(also available in pump bottles) and passes all the environmental standards.
I trust it, and before it was released to the marketplace, I trusted it
enough to spray several folio-sized engravings from a dismantled (before I
received it) Dutch Lutheran bible printed in 1702-03. Stopped the
disintegration process flat. It also works on photos.

www.scrapbook-archivers.com/
www.paper-preservation.com/products_services.html

Preservation is tedious stuff, but worth it if you value your collection.
Another (also tedious) way to slow down deterioration is to interleave with
the appropriate sheets...which will vary depending on the pages to be
preserved. I could probably get them less expensively elsewhere, but I trust
the products sold by Light Impressions and Archival Methods. You¹ll probably
have to cut sheets down a bit on odd-sized books. I borrowed some
neighborhood kids on a couple of rainy afternoons last year to help. I told
them they were in charge of the heritage of books, and reverence ensued.

www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

The Library of Congress has great info on preservation. One among many
online articles:
www.loc.gov/preserv/care/photolea.html


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:09:45 -0600, John Berg wrote:

>I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
>cataloging them.

One problem there, John, is which books will be available in e-book
format in our lifetime.

While I've read many books on an e-reader, I despair of seeing the
serious histories and reference books which I enjoy appearing in a
digital format. There just isn't enough market... not yet, anyway.

So if I want to re-read Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy, I must
resign myself to my hard copies, each weighing over three pounds as I
lie abed, my thumbs aching under the strain.

Besides, my e-reader doesn't do maps well anyway, even if the book was
ever scanned.

>John
>(The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)

Always books. If you really want to preserve a book, at least for your
lifetime, keep the book... unless it's on cheap paper. If you want to
preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Marshall Rafferty
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Agree that scanning, to date, is the best solution.


From: Marshall Rafferty <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:29:56 -0800
To: Marshall Rafferty <>
Cc: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

Let me correct that: To keep photos make a good quality copy negative
and keep *that* safe. The orginals will probably fail sooner.

Marshall
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Wicked Melani!

But it reminds me to find someone to foist the responsibility to. My great
fear: the the appointed person won¹t get to my computer and destroy it
before all the skeletons are revealed. My greater fear: that something
horrible will happen to The Books. I don¹t need an executor for me, I need
one for The Books.



From: Melani Van Petten <>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:45:43 -0800
To: "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com." <>
Subject: Re: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

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You mean, who will deal with the hundreds of books after I'm gone? My
plan is to dump them on my daughter. It took me six months to clean out
my mom's house after she passed away at 84--I would hate to deny my
daughter equal pleasure. (laughing evilly)

Melani

On 11/12/10 7:09 PM, johnberg wrote:
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> at end of message
> ______
> Until this message of Ron Wattaja, I hadn't connected the Kindle has
> solution to a recurring dilemma about books, hoarding (you have seen
> the new TV series?), and (read the rest of this message in black
> letter gothic font) the "final disposition of my collection."
>
> I have many, many maritime books. Recently I have begun to think of
> cataloging them.
>
> Many kindred soles have asked me of a way to preserve their collection
> so others may enjoy them. Before a repeat my solution, let me ask you
> all if you have one?
>
> John
> (The Kindle Effect: at the end, no books; well, not really.)
>
>
>
>

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On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:08:54 -0800, I wrote:

> If you want to
>preserve your photos, make good digital scans, but try to keep the
>photos themselves safe as long as you can.

I thought I amended this last night, but my reply only came to me!
Geez I hate this configuration.

What I really should have said was that to save photos (at least the
ones worth saving), keep a high quality digital scan, but also a very
good copy negative which will likely outlive the original photo.

Marshall
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...
From: Deb Carlen [mailto:]

> You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know
> that a film is-even as I type-being produced of John Carter
> of Mars? Set for release in 2012, but I think shooting is
> finished.

The SciFi channel aired a version of "A Princess of Mars" several months back. Rather low budget, with Carter being a current-day US Army soldier in Afghanistan and creature effects being minimal. It was not well received.

Ron Wanttaja
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I think the one you¹re talking about was produced by Asylum; the I¹ve read
about is by Pixar et al, and they¹re sticking to the real story. Below from
2009

The latest news is that Pixar Animation Studios in conjunction with Walt
Disney Pictures is in the process of bringing Civil War soldier John
Carter¹s adventures on Mars to life, under the auspices of director Andrew
Stanton. This film, titled John Carter of Mars, is scheduled for a 2012
release, with Willem Dafoe as the nine-foot-tall, green, four-armed
insectoid warrior Tars Tarkas, Taylor Kitsch as John Carter and Lynn Collins
as the Princess of the city of Helium, Dejah Thoris. This one is still in
early days, but it is rumoured that it will be a combination of live-action
and animation, set in the book¹s original Civil-War time period and will no
doubt make some sort of stab at sticking to the book (more or less).



From: "Wanttaja, Ronald J" <>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:07:50 -0800
To: Deb Carlen <>, "scuttlebutt www.sea-room.com."
<>
Subject: RE: [Scuttlebutt] KINDLE (And recommended books)

...
From: Deb Carlen [mailto:]

> You mention the Burroughs books: am I the last to know
> that a film is-even as I type-being produced of John Carter
> of Mars? Set for release in 2012, but I think shooting is
> finished.

The SciFi channel aired a version of "A Princess of Mars" several months
back. Rather low budget, with Carter being a current-day US Army soldier in
Afghanistan and creature effects being minimal. It was not well received.

Ron Wanttaja

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