I'd suggest that our President go back and check to see what was promised to people when they became Life Members back 35-40 years ago.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Jeffer <>
To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo <>
Sent: Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [JudoList] October Growing Judo now available
I would say that being dead is probably grounds for dropping someone from the
life membership roles
--- On Thu, 10/7/10, Gary Goltz <> wrote:
From: Gary Goltz <>
Subject: Re: [JudoList] October Growing Judo now available
To: "Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo"
<>
Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 9:51 PM
No life member has been denied any benefits. Counting them as active members
when most stopped doing judo (some are dead) creates an artificial sense of that
we are really big. The tone of your email is disrespectful so for those
readings understand why i will be moving on as I'm really busy.
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
(909) 702-3250
On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:29 PM, cheryl frances ellis <>
wrote:
> Cool. So, we haven't really lost 20,000 members. You just opted to deny our
existence, though the USJA promised us a lifetime of membership privileges and
though we gave of ourselves on the mat for years before knowing when we needed
to get off it. You're a member for life for $150., but, oh, we changed our
minds now, and you're not a member unless you ante-up again. How can anyone
possibly see that as anything other than an unethical, dirty, double-cross? We
was cheated! Lied to! Ronald and Larry Lee and others tried to make Phil
realize the magnitude of the life membership agreements the USJA was making, but
Phil persisted with the lifetime offers, was not stopped by the Board, and
agreements were made and now are breached. Do you believe an organization can
abandon its previous contracts because its leadership changes? I guess so since
you say that's what you have done. So, were our votes counted, or were they
disqualified
because we no longer were considered members?
>
> On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:46 PM, Gary Goltz wrote:
>
>> We've been counting Active Members for the past 5 years when I became COO.
>> If we included all the LM's that would be an additional 20,757. Adding that
>> to our AMs would put us close to 29,000. This creates an illusion of success
>> which is a bad way to run a business.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: judolist- [mailto:judolist-] On
>> Behalf Of cheryl frances ellis
>> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 4:04 PM
>> To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo
>> Subject: Re: [JudoList] October Growing Judo now available
>>
>> Did the total USJA membership at some point take a sharp dip because we
>> stopped counting life members who no longer get on the mat and thus no
>> longer get insurance renewals? Or do we still count all the life members in
>> that total? If not, when did we stop counting them? Were no-insurance life
>> members' votes counted in the most recent election, or were they
>> disqualified for not being on "the list?" Was there some point in USJA
>> history when the membership started to decline noticeably? Was there a
>> sudden drop during the time of all the quick promotions? Or was it earlier
>> than that? Or are some of you thinking that a noticeable number of members
>> left judo altogether, for the more popular martial arts, since the 60s?
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Rob Thornton wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to see those numbers myself. I know they've been posted in
>>> past years, I'd like the see the over/under for the last five years.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM, cheryl frances ellis
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> You're right; I am guilty of making that assumption on hearsay and what
>> has been posted unofficially here and there. You can clear this up right
>> away by posting for us the number of members we had, say five years ago, and
>> two years ago, and one year ago, and now. I know our club is doing a lot to
>> make up for those lost members!
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Gary Goltz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Our membership is steady as a rock. Don't know where you get your
>>>>> information but mine comes from our new database management system which
>> is
>>>>> updated continuously. I would appreciate if you would state your
>> assumptions
>>>>> as just that.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: judolist- [mailto:judolist-]
>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of cheryl frances ellis
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:08 AM
>>>>> To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo
>>>>> Subject: Re: [JudoList] October Growing Judo now available
>>>>>
>>>>> Having been forced into a front row seat in judo matters, I'll venture
>> some
>>>>> comments. My reactions to your questions are somewhat USJA specific.
>> What
>>>>> the USJA is doing that is different is losing members. And, the USJA's
>>>>> requirements for Shodan seem to have become much more lax than in our
>>>>> neighborhood. What the USJA is doing that is the same is that we have
>>>>> leaders who assume they are the only ones who teach proper judo and the
>> only
>>>>> ones capable of leadership. They drove each other out of leadership
>> roles
>>>>> so that only a few leaders are left, and some of them have no respect or
>>>>> appreciation for what has come before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our current leaders wanted to change things for the better, and I
>> believe
>>>>> they were sincere, but they seem to have approached change by replacing
>>>>> everyone they did not personally like or even know with "good people"
>> who
>>>>> would magically be able and willing to re-create the organization
>> favorably.
>>>>> Now a few people are micromanaging much more than they can handle,
>> sometimes
>>>>> making decisions without thinking them through. Maybe what the USJA
>> needs
>>>>> is nurture of what and all we are, a time of re-grouping. Maybe the
>> office
>>>>> staff, which is upholding the "mutual respect" as well as the routine
>>>>> business, is more important to the organization now than the leaders.
>> Many
>>>>> if not most club heads always are striving to improve steadily from the
>>>>> bottom up, yet our top leaders insist that they are stagnant and need to
>> be
>>>>> "changed." Mutual respect?
>>>>>
>>>>> Some see my club head, Ronald Allan Charles, as a "service to judo" guy.
>>>>> True, he does recreational judo. He teaches solid basic techniques and
>>>>> kata. And he works closely with a better competition coach, Leonard
>> Carter,
>>>>> for those students who are serious about competing and ready for it. It
>> is
>>>>> too bad we cannot appreciate each other for our strengths and work
>> together
>>>>> this way on a national level.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for surges in popularity of the various martial arts, these all seem
>> to
>>>>> have resulted from glorifying street fighting. Do we want to be seen as
>>>>> street fighters? I thought judo was created so that martial arts
>> techniques
>>>>> COULD be enjoyed recreationally. The gentle way in both practice and
>>>>> competition. Ippon with control. Mutual respect. Perhaps we can find
>> more
>>>>> ways to demonstrate joy and pride in our art to the general public. C.
>> C.
>>>>> Wilkerson laughing as he repeatedly ties his students in knots on the
>> mat
>>>>> and just as heartily when they get something on him. What an ad
>> something
>>>>> of that nature could be for judo! Skill, Fitness, Discipline. Respect,
>>>>> Friendship, and Fun.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:46 AM, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some deeper thoughts need to go into Gerald's comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has been said that "if you keep doing what you have been doing, you
>>>>> will keep getting what you have been getting."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are we doing that is different? What are we doing that is the
>> same?
>>>>> Do we want to change?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Gary Goltz <>
>>>>>> To: 'Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo'
>>>>> <>
>>>>>> Sent: Thu, Oct 7, 2010 4:01 am
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [JudoList] October Growing Judo now available
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl Geis recently told me amateur comes from amore which means to do
>>>>>> something for the love of it. For judo to move forward we do need fresh
>>>>>> ideas and to be open to thinking out of the box, I agree. However to
>> take
>>>>>> pot shots at the folks currently working hard at running clubs, holding
>>>>>> tournaments, clinics, and promoting judo for the love of it seems
>>>>>> counterproductive to your argument.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: judolist-
>> [mailto:judolist-]
>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Gerald Lafon
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 11:57 PM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of All Aspects of Traditional and Modern Judo
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [JudoList] October Growing Judo now available
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Gary Goltz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you point your finger remember 4 are pointing back at you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eight hours ago, I was going to let that one slide, but now I think my
>>>>>> initial reaction was wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know whose four fingers are pointing back at me, but it sure
>> isn't
>>>>>> any on my fingers. You, more than anyone else on this list, should know
>>>>> that
>>>>>> I practice what I preach. And I preach what I preach because I am tired
>> of
>>>>>> Judo being maligned by the American public, and being maligned because
>> we
>>>>>> have not learned a darn thing from the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need a new Judo culture. We need to rebrand Judo. We need a Judo
>>>>>> industry. We need to step outside that box we've been so attached to
>> for
>>>>> the
>>>>>> last 40 years. And we need to look around us and figure out what every
>>>>> other
>>>>>> art is doing to grow. Better pedagogy, better coaches, better rules,
>> and
>>>>>> better facilities will help. I'm doing these things in my club. I'm
>>>>>> encouraging others to look beyond their comfort zones. But with the
>> USJA,
>>>>>> and the other two orgs as well, in spite of a few good people, it's
>> still
>>>>>> the same sorry old model that gets us nowhere, but a step closer to
>>>>>> extinction. Case in point: how in the world and why in the world do we
>> put
>>>>>> up with the idiotic rules the IJF shoved down our throats without
>>>>> revolting?
>>>>>> Isn't anyone awake at the wheel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, yes, we're still primarily a bunch of amateurs trying to play with
>> the
>>>>>> pros, and it need not be like that...but it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure we do, but we don't. It's business, or more appropriately lack of
>>>>>>> business, as usual. We've allowed various trends to blow us out of the
>>>>>> water
>>>>>>> since the 1960s without changing our m.o. First it was Bruce Lee and
>> the
>>>>>>> kung fu craze, then pro-karate on TV, then bjj and now mma. Nothing
>> has
>>>>>>> changed in Judo other than its emasculation via rule changes. We are
>>>>> still
>>>>>>> largely a collection of small, amateurish clubs, led by "service to
>> Judo"
>>>>>>> black belts, operating out of borrowed facilities on crappy mats with
>> no
>>>>>>> modern pedagogy, and without any semblance of a national marketing
>> plan.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> only thing remarkable is that we are still around...barely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _____________________________
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