Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony..

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?

**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?

**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?

**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your
>closet? Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon
>fit for combat.

I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.

It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?

**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your
>closet? Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon
>fit for combat.

I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.

It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Hackworth in his book talks about the M-16....how it first showed up
as a survival weapon for the air force, and later on
when he thought he had some horsepower to stop it from being a mainline
weapon....but could not.

Kalashnikov tells how he tried to stop the 223 version of his AK being
built.

If you talk to the real guys in Iraq or Afghanistan, they carry Ak47s
but have been warned they will be busted if the
media sees that.....

So anyone that knows anything, 223 is the politically correct weapon of
choice.....

rob/ferts/phx
rob lipinski

On 9/15/10 3:06 PM, Steve Knickerbocker wrote:
> At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>> Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?
>> Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for
>> combat.
>
> I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
> round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
> none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.
>
> It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
> first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.
>
>


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?

**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your
>closet? Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon
>fit for combat.

I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.

It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Hackworth in his book talks about the M-16....how it first showed up
as a survival weapon for the air force, and later on
when he thought he had some horsepower to stop it from being a mainline
weapon....but could not.

Kalashnikov tells how he tried to stop the 223 version of his AK being
built.

If you talk to the real guys in Iraq or Afghanistan, they carry Ak47s
but have been warned they will be busted if the
media sees that.....

So anyone that knows anything, 223 is the politically correct weapon of
choice.....

rob/ferts/phx
rob lipinski

On 9/15/10 3:06 PM, Steve Knickerbocker wrote:
> At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>> Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?
>> Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for
>> combat.
>
> I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
> round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
> none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.
>
> It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
> first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.
>
>


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Come on you kids play nice.  A carbine is very effective when it hits you between the eyes but I prefer a little more power in my 30 cal, as in 7.62 NATO.. 

Dave
MtnMOPAR

--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 2:19 PM

Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Koreans, small people, small gun, has to be the carbine.



"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.  Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 7:14 PM

Are these US Rifle Cal 30 M1s or Carbines?
In any  case, for the dollars these Garands bring I can buy two good 7.62X51 Saiga AKs.



--- On Fri, 9/10/10, rll <> wrote:

From: rll <>
Subject: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:17 PM






Obama
Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s to Law-abiding
Americans

-- State Department intimates
that these historic relics may be melted down



Gun Owners of America E-Mail
Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102,
Springfield, VA 22151

Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX:
703-321-8408

http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm




Friday, September 10, 2010





Apparently, things are going so well in the Middle East
that the State Department now feels it can turn its attention to
banning the lawful possession of firearms by American citizens.




In a little-noticed decision in March, the Obama
administration reversed an earlier decision and moved to block
the importation of 857,470 lawful M1 semi-automatics which were
being sold by South Korea in an effort to raise money for its
military. According to Hillary Clinton's State Department, this
action was taken because the M1's "could potentially be
exploited... for illicit purposes."



Even worse, a spokesman for the State Department left the
impression that the valuable historic relics
could even be melted down, as Clinton's husband did during his
administration. Suffice it to say that this is just another
reiteration of the same anti-gun political theatre. And the
cheers coming from anti-gunners like Dennis Henigan of the Brady
Campaign are ample proof of that.



Possession of these guns by Americans is lawful. They are
antiques of historical interest, particularly for those who,
unlike Clinton and her husband, served this country honorably in
America's foreign wars. And anyone wishing to acquire one would
have to go through an Instant Check.



If any American, going into the November
elections, had any doubt that Barack Obama and the Democratic
Party leaders hate guns and have contempt for the Second
Amendment, this is proof. Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are
submitting a
letter to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton --
demanding that this unlawful decision be reversed.



And we are working with several legislators to offer an
amendment on the next available legislative vehicle which would
prohibit the administration from blocking the importation -- or
even the destruction -- of these firearms. Please see the ACTION
item and pre-written letter below.



Have you recently renewed your GOA membership?



If you haven't renewed
your membership lately, then there's a lot of information that
you could be missing. In our newsletters, GOA takes on recent UN
efforts to impose global gun control and has provided its
members with postcards to inundate their Senators in opposition
to any arms control treaties that would infringe upon our gun
rights.



In fact, current members should be expecting another
update on UN gun control efforts that will be arriving in their
mailboxes soon. We can't fight all our battles through email and
that's why we need you to be a member of Gun Owners of America.



You can go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm
and join Gun Owners of America for the cost of a box of
ammunition. Get your friends and family to sign up as well.
You'll be glad you
did!



ACTION: Write your Representative and
urge him or her to cosign the
Boozman/Broun letter which demands that the unlawful decision
against the M1s be reversed. You can go to the Gun
Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm
to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message
below.





----- Pre-written letter -----



Dear Representative:



Please stand up for the Second Amendment in opposition to
the
Obama administration's anti-gun efforts to block the importation
of -- or even destroy -- over 850,000 legal, historic M1
semi-automatic firearms.



Reps. John Boozman and Paul Broun are submitting a letter
to State Department Secretary Hillary Clinton protesting this
unlawful action.



I urge you in the strongest terms to cosign that letter
with them. You can contact either Boozman's or Broun's office to
get a copy of the letter and to indicate your desire to add your
name to this effort.



Thank you.



Sincerely,


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the ****
>rifle than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.


Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or
load your own, btdt.


>Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if
>you're aiming to do dastardly deeds.


There IS that.

An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better
purpose than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with? These days, an M1
carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...

However:

...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had
some ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have
around if you really needed a light, capable, and effective
close-quarters fire arm with some semblance of relatively long
distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any
good) to protect your life and property, especially if you were
somewhat rural and you needed to go on the offensive. Not a bad
brush gun, that carbine.

That's where it's in its realm.

Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy
to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You
can stick both pieces inside a good size pillow. And, it comes
apart fast with nothing but a bullet needed as the only tool.

If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and
easy to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a
choice. But, it would still require a special circumstance for it
to "come into its own" again... ;)




tony.. This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.



--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:

From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)

Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.

Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:

From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?

**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your
>closet? Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon
>fit for combat.

I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.

It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Hackworth in his book talks about the M-16....how it first showed up
as a survival weapon for the air force, and later on
when he thought he had some horsepower to stop it from being a mainline
weapon....but could not.

Kalashnikov tells how he tried to stop the 223 version of his AK being
built.

If you talk to the real guys in Iraq or Afghanistan, they carry Ak47s
but have been warned they will be busted if the
media sees that.....

So anyone that knows anything, 223 is the politically correct weapon of
choice.....

rob/ferts/phx
rob lipinski

On 9/15/10 3:06 PM, Steve Knickerbocker wrote:
> At 01:19 PM 9/15/2010, Marty P. wrote:
>> Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?
>> Quit with the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for
>> combat.
>
> I gotta agree. a .22, .223, hell anything sub .3XX, is a varmint
> round. Now we can argue the varmintness of our current enemies, but
> none the less Fstill equal mass times acceleration.
>
> It is my personal opinion, FWIW, the M16 and it's variants were the
> first step in the feminization of our military, followed by the 9mm.
>
>


_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Come on you kids play nice.  A carbine is very effective when it hits you between the eyes but I prefer a little more power in my 30 cal, as in 7.62 NATO.. 

Dave
MtnMOPAR

--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Marty P. <> wrote:

From: Marty P. <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 2:19 PM

Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet?  Quit with the coolaid.  A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.



--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <> wrote:

From: Geoff <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

Aw, **** Marty P.

What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?

Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
because you've got a better gun?


**** you, ****.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the same effectiveness, which is nearly none.  My home defense carbine throws a 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover into concealment in a few seconds.  30 carbine and 223 are not even legal for deer killing in most states.




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <> wrote:


From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24
PM

This is quite true.  Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet.  Ever since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with the M16, M4, and the M9.  I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify expert next go around.  M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting for distance kind of a hassle.  Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and it gets a little tougher.  Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.  250/300, not so much.  Nothing that can't be cured with some practice.  And hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has taught, weak-handed)


Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense.  Not really going to
plug anything out further than 100 yards
with any regularity with it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters stuff.  Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.  Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.


Ray Funke
69 Fury 3 ragtop

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <> wrote:


From: Tony Underwood <>
Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
To: "Motors guns and politics" <>

Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM



At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:

If they're carbines, you'd find
it a lot easier to get the **** rifle than you would to get quality
ammo to fire through it. 


Georgia Arms.   Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent
ammo.   Or load your own, btdt.  




Fact is, there are
far better options as far as firearms go if you're aiming to do dastardly
deeds.


There IS that.  


An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
than just that.   Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum
loads will put a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else
work just as well and be easier to deal with?   These days, an
M1 carbine is a novelty item and a relic of wars gone by...


However:  


...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if
you really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm
with some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups
at 100 meters easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and
property, especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on
the offensive.  Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.  



That's where it's in its realm.  


Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy,
and a 6" grouping at 100 meters is a head shot.  It's light and
easy to handle and not hard to hide, especially if you pop it
apart.  You can stick both pieces inside a good size
pillow.   And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a bullet
needed as the only tool.  


If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice.  
But, it would still require a special circumstance for it to "come
into its own" again... ;)    







tony..



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe. Nope. My .22 is a .22, and my other gun is a 12 gauge.
As far as what weapon I would want to have going where Ray's going, anything
short of one of those fully automatic shotguns wouldn't do the job. For
longer range, how about a nice .50 cal? But that doesn't mean I'm going to
tell him he likes something because it's sub-par. But then again, I guess
if the world depended on Marty Patrovsky watching his mouth and being
respectful to others, we'd all be dead. I have a problem with **** who
are too stupid to give military guys some respect. That would be you.


On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Marty P. <> wrote:

> Whatsamatter Geoff ya got a favorite AR15 hiding in your closet? Quit with
> the coolaid. A 22 is a 22 and it's not a weapon fit for combat.
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 9/15/10, Geoff <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Geoff <>
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <>
> Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 10:48 AM
>
>
> Aw, **** Marty P.
>
> What the **** is the matter with you, don't you have anything nice to say?
>
> Ray's putting his ass on the line for you and me, and you gotta tear him
> down because of his weapon preference, then tell us your dick is bigger
> because you've got a better gun?
>
> **** you, ****.
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Marty P. <
> > wrote:
>
> I'm not surprised you like the 30 carbine and the M4 as both have about the
> same effectiveness, which is nearly none. My home defense carbine throws a
> 175gr bullet which is at least four times as heavy as the M4 at 2900fps and
> if someone chooses to hide behind a cement block wall I can turn their cover
> into concealment in a few seconds. 30 carbine and 223 are not even legal
> for deer killing in most states.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/14/10, AWOL Zero-One Bravo <
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: AWOL Zero-One Bravo <
> >
>
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <
> >
> Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:24 PM
>
>
> This is quite true. Haven't gotten around to firing the carbine yet. Ever
> since I got "the call" I've been focusing more on becoming proficient with
> the M16, M4, and the M9. I'm pretty good with the M9, figure I'll qualify
> expert next go around. M16, well, I'm near-sighted, and that makes shooting
> for distance kind of a hassle. Throw in some body-armor and a gas mask, and
> it gets a little tougher. Still, I'm deadly to about 150 meters with it.
> 250/300, not so much. Nothing that can't be cured with some practice. And
> hell, before 2 weeks ago, I'd never fired an M16, let alone in all the
> positions required for qualification (and, as this week's training has
> taught, weak-handed)
>
> Which is why I really dig the Carbine for homestead defense. Not really
> going to plug anything out further than 100 yards with any regularity with
> it, and it's just like the M4 inasmuch as it's perfect for close quarters
> stuff. Can't hang all the **** on it like you can the M4 SOPMOD though.
> Except for the ammo issue--you're really not going to go down to the corner
> sporting goods store and load up on .30 carbine, it's a good rifle.
>
> Ray Funke
> 69 Fury 3 ragtop
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/13/10, Tony Underwood <
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Underwood <
> >
> Subject: Re: [mgap] Obama Administration Moves to Block the Sale of M1s
> To: "Motors guns and politics" <
> >
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 12:36 AM
>
> At 05:57 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> If they're carbines, you'd find it a lot easier to get the **** rifle
> than you would to get quality ammo to fire through it.
>
>
>
> Georgia Arms. Not only fairly cheap, it's pretty decent ammo. Or load
> your own, btdt.
>
>
> Fact is, there are far better options as far as firearms go if you're
> aiming to do dastardly deeds.
>
>
>
> There IS that.
>
> An M1 carbine is a war weapon and actually serves little better purpose
> than just that. Sure, you could hunt with it and the magnum loads will put
> a bullet through a deer... but wouldn't something else work just as well and
> be easier to deal with? These days, an M1 carbine is a novelty item and a
> relic of wars gone by...
>
> However:
>
> ...if **** really hit the fan and everything collapsed and you had some
> ammo stockpiled, an M1 carbine wouldn't be a bad thing to have around if you
> really needed a light, capable, and effective close-quarters fire arm with
> some semblance of relatively long distance accuracy (6" groups at 100 meters
> easy if the barrel is any good) to protect your life and property,
> especially if you were somewhat rural and you needed to go on the
> offensive. Not a bad brush gun, that carbine.
>
> That's where it's in its realm.
>
> Good loads will put a bullet through a 6" diameter pine tree easy, and a 6"
> grouping at 100 meters is a head shot. It's light and easy to handle and
> not hard to hide, especially if you pop it apart. You can stick both pieces
> inside a good size pillow. And, it comes apart fast with nothing but a
> bullet needed as the only tool.
>
> If you needed a smaller lighter weapon that was simple, durable, and easy
> to handle, an M1 carbine wouldn't be all that bad a choice. But, it would
> still require a special circumstance for it to "come into its own" again...
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> tony..
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the MGAP @ Creeping Luna mailing list. Go to http://creepinglunacy.com/mailman/listinfo/mgap_creepinglunacy.com to subscribe.