-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Rich Gano wrote:

> Maybe you guys need to get rid of the drips. :)
>
>

A crew shortage aboard forces the storage of wet anchor chain. Perhaps Rudy
has a drying station for Jill before the anchor goes below deck but it's not
an option here.

The pit stays as long as drips are possible. It saves emptying the wet vac.
;)

Paul Lindenmeyer
DeFever 41 "Moon Dancer"
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Rich Gano wrote:

> Maybe you guys need to get rid of the drips. :)
>
>

A crew shortage aboard forces the storage of wet anchor chain. Perhaps Rudy
has a drying station for Jill before the anchor goes below deck but it's not
an option here.

The pit stays as long as drips are possible. It saves emptying the wet vac.
;)

Paul Lindenmeyer
DeFever 41 "Moon Dancer"
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. In my opinion, adding bilge pumps to get rid of a constant source of
water is the wrong approach.

You can install dripless shaft seals to keep out corrosive salt water.

You can seal up all leaks in lockers, bulkheads, hatches, etc.

You can repair any pressure water system leaks.

That should take care of almost all sources of stray water at the source.

That leaves A/C condensate. I installed an aquarium venturi on my A/C
cooling water discharge line. The venturi creates a suction point for
a small **** on the venturi. I ran a hose from this **** to the
A/C drain pan. The venturi sucks the condensate out thru the hose and
overboard, mixing it with the cooling water. It's a one way suction
flow and works like a champ. Cost of venturi was less than $30, found
it on-line. I also installed a shut off valve after the venturi that I
close while underway. I no longer have sources of stray water getting
into the boat. I have a dry bilge with no wet wires or tanks sitting
in water. Not that hard to do really.

Once I stopped the flow of water, I ran the shop vac to get up almost
all the water. I have a spot where I cannot get it all. There I dumped
a small amount of kitty litter to absorb the last of the water and
vacuumed that up a day later.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Rich Gano wrote:

> Maybe you guys need to get rid of the drips. :)
>
>

A crew shortage aboard forces the storage of wet anchor chain. Perhaps Rudy
has a drying station for Jill before the anchor goes below deck but it's not
an option here.

The pit stays as long as drips are possible. It saves emptying the wet vac.
;)

Paul Lindenmeyer
DeFever 41 "Moon Dancer"
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. In my opinion, adding bilge pumps to get rid of a constant source of
water is the wrong approach.

You can install dripless shaft seals to keep out corrosive salt water.

You can seal up all leaks in lockers, bulkheads, hatches, etc.

You can repair any pressure water system leaks.

That should take care of almost all sources of stray water at the source.

That leaves A/C condensate. I installed an aquarium venturi on my A/C
cooling water discharge line. The venturi creates a suction point for
a small **** on the venturi. I ran a hose from this **** to the
A/C drain pan. The venturi sucks the condensate out thru the hose and
overboard, mixing it with the cooling water. It's a one way suction
flow and works like a champ. Cost of venturi was less than $30, found
it on-line. I also installed a shut off valve after the venturi that I
close while underway. I no longer have sources of stray water getting
into the boat. I have a dry bilge with no wet wires or tanks sitting
in water. Not that hard to do really.

Once I stopped the flow of water, I ran the shop vac to get up almost
all the water. I have a spot where I cannot get it all. There I dumped
a small amount of kitty litter to absorb the last of the water and
vacuumed that up a day later.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Jim:

On my boat the three evaporator trays drain directly into small
individual thru-hulls above the water line. The condenser trays don't
drain but the accumulated water just evaporates. It might be easier than
you think.

Frank Burrows 79 43' Viking Piney Narrows Chesapeake Bay

On 9/10/2010 9:40 AM, Jim Gano wrote:
> I wish it were so easy..
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Rich Gano wrote:

> Maybe you guys need to get rid of the drips. :)
>
>

A crew shortage aboard forces the storage of wet anchor chain. Perhaps Rudy
has a drying station for Jill before the anchor goes below deck but it's not
an option here.

The pit stays as long as drips are possible. It saves emptying the wet vac.
;)

Paul Lindenmeyer
DeFever 41 "Moon Dancer"
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. In my opinion, adding bilge pumps to get rid of a constant source of
water is the wrong approach.

You can install dripless shaft seals to keep out corrosive salt water.

You can seal up all leaks in lockers, bulkheads, hatches, etc.

You can repair any pressure water system leaks.

That should take care of almost all sources of stray water at the source.

That leaves A/C condensate. I installed an aquarium venturi on my A/C
cooling water discharge line. The venturi creates a suction point for
a small **** on the venturi. I ran a hose from this **** to the
A/C drain pan. The venturi sucks the condensate out thru the hose and
overboard, mixing it with the cooling water. It's a one way suction
flow and works like a champ. Cost of venturi was less than $30, found
it on-line. I also installed a shut off valve after the venturi that I
close while underway. I no longer have sources of stray water getting
into the boat. I have a dry bilge with no wet wires or tanks sitting
in water. Not that hard to do really.

Once I stopped the flow of water, I ran the shop vac to get up almost
all the water. I have a spot where I cannot get it all. There I dumped
a small amount of kitty litter to absorb the last of the water and
vacuumed that up a day later.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Jim:

On my boat the three evaporator trays drain directly into small
individual thru-hulls above the water line. The condenser trays don't
drain but the accumulated water just evaporates. It might be easier than
you think.

Frank Burrows 79 43' Viking Piney Narrows Chesapeake Bay

On 9/10/2010 9:40 AM, Jim Gano wrote:
> I wish it were so easy..
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. > And I would still need to spend big bucks for dripless
> shaft hardware....

Morning Jim

This statement caught my eye, as it suggests you are not using the fairly inexpensive alternative to dripless stuffing boxes... gortex packing in a traditional stuffing box. If you are, the rest of this won't suprise you.

I love the simplicity of traditional stuffing boxes, and since we can easily get to ours, the simplicity of maintaining them. We also like the fact that if the stuffing goes out of them, we can repack them with just about anything, even if we have to use one of Jill's more colorful pair of pantyhose.

As far as that accumulative drip goes, the gortex packing (we are using the West Marine brand) has eliminated it. In addition, we seldom have to adjust the tightness of the gland either, less so if not using the boat. I don't think that I've tightened my stuffing box in 3 years and still no leaking.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Rich Gano wrote:

> Maybe you guys need to get rid of the drips. :)
>
>

A crew shortage aboard forces the storage of wet anchor chain. Perhaps Rudy
has a drying station for Jill before the anchor goes below deck but it's not
an option here.

The pit stays as long as drips are possible. It saves emptying the wet vac.
;)

Paul Lindenmeyer
DeFever 41 "Moon Dancer"
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. In my opinion, adding bilge pumps to get rid of a constant source of
water is the wrong approach.

You can install dripless shaft seals to keep out corrosive salt water.

You can seal up all leaks in lockers, bulkheads, hatches, etc.

You can repair any pressure water system leaks.

That should take care of almost all sources of stray water at the source.

That leaves A/C condensate. I installed an aquarium venturi on my A/C
cooling water discharge line. The venturi creates a suction point for
a small **** on the venturi. I ran a hose from this **** to the
A/C drain pan. The venturi sucks the condensate out thru the hose and
overboard, mixing it with the cooling water. It's a one way suction
flow and works like a champ. Cost of venturi was less than $30, found
it on-line. I also installed a shut off valve after the venturi that I
close while underway. I no longer have sources of stray water getting
into the boat. I have a dry bilge with no wet wires or tanks sitting
in water. Not that hard to do really.

Once I stopped the flow of water, I ran the shop vac to get up almost
all the water. I have a spot where I cannot get it all. There I dumped
a small amount of kitty litter to absorb the last of the water and
vacuumed that up a day later.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Jim:

On my boat the three evaporator trays drain directly into small
individual thru-hulls above the water line. The condenser trays don't
drain but the accumulated water just evaporates. It might be easier than
you think.

Frank Burrows 79 43' Viking Piney Narrows Chesapeake Bay

On 9/10/2010 9:40 AM, Jim Gano wrote:
> I wish it were so easy..
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. > And I would still need to spend big bucks for dripless
> shaft hardware....

Morning Jim

This statement caught my eye, as it suggests you are not using the fairly inexpensive alternative to dripless stuffing boxes... gortex packing in a traditional stuffing box. If you are, the rest of this won't suprise you.

I love the simplicity of traditional stuffing boxes, and since we can easily get to ours, the simplicity of maintaining them. We also like the fact that if the stuffing goes out of them, we can repack them with just about anything, even if we have to use one of Jill's more colorful pair of pantyhose.

As far as that accumulative drip goes, the gortex packing (we are using the West Marine brand) has eliminated it. In addition, we seldom have to adjust the tightness of the gland either, less so if not using the boat. I don't think that I've tightened my stuffing box in 3 years and still no leaking.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Here is a link to a turbo venturi that can suck out the condensation
from the pan under the A/C unit.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/3536/Turbo-Venturi-Injectors

Not sure what to say about sweat on a split system.

My PSS shaft seal cost me under $300 for a 1.25" shaft.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McLeran <>

>Subject: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
>
> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
>bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
>gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
>of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
>be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues).

I think I'd take a simple approach. A diaphragm pump (jabsco or equivalent)that is self priming to several feet, a small diameter (1/2 inch or less) suction line with a check valve at the bottom, inserted in the pit. Put the pump on a timer and let it run periodically. adjust the frequency to a suitable period.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a
gallon of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume
of water out of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would
be dry (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand
operated diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering
station pumping the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit
dry using that method.

Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float
switch connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the
exit hose to the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would
have an upper and lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of
the pit the switch would activate (close), and when the water level is
near empty the switch would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch
(and pump) needs to work on 12 volts.

My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years,
but one method household units use for switching is a float attached to
a rod with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is
thrown by the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to
be the mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.

An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and
thence the pump.

I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because
of the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.

Any ideas?

FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump.
There are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would
activate sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob,

Check out http://wemausa.com/. They make tank level
sensors similar to what you are looking for. I worked with them many years
ago and found them helpful for a custom setup I needed. Maybe they can help
you with your problem.

Ron Nelson
Port Orchard, WA
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. How about the Arid Bilge system? http://aridbilge.com/Home_Page.html


Keith
________________
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-] On Behalf Of Bob
McLeran

I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
(eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
method.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob, let us know when you come up with an idea for a switch, I'd like to hear about it.

But one thought comes to mind about your situation, at least as I understand it, - even if you get a switch to do what you want, will the set up be able to remove enough water, even with a check valve installed, to make it worthwhile?

Here is a thought that may or may not work in your situation. Most bilge pumps, for a variety of reasons, cannot pump clear to the bottom of a bilge or sump and will leave a considerable amount of water, even if back flow was stopped with a check valve.

What we did on our boat is to orient the suction hose that goes to a remote mounted pump (manual, of course), to sit vertically, with the hole in its end within a fraction of an inch from the surface of the bottom of the bilge.

When Jill finishes pumping (once a year or so) this still leaves a little water in the bilge, and does not stop back flow, which a check valve might be useful for, but it does empty more water than if the hose was orientated horizontally, especially if a strum box was fitted or a regular bilge pump was installed.

The back flow in our situation is minimized by using a diaphram pump with flapper valves, so very little water remains in the hose when finished anyways.

To make it even more effective, you could narrow in the sides of the sump to the point that, when they meet the bottom, just enough room for the hose was left. (Think of all the fun your wife would have doing the glass work!)

I'm also curious to why you would want to try and keep this area dry to begin with? I'd doubt that a little standing water is a serious problem unless this water was splashing into things better kept dry.

If osmosis is the consideration, then instead, consider drying out and coating the sump. This might be a better option as no matter how empty you make it, either some water will remain, return, or will start to gather again, probably keeping this area wet anyways. If you waterproof the sump's surfaces, then a typical bilge pump system, whether an "on-site" pump or a remote pump, might satisfy your needs since the possibility of osmosis was eliminated a some standing water wouldn't do any harm??

Just idle curiosity coupled with mental gymnastics; after all, this is the guy who suggested having one spare prop for a twin engine boat! By the way, kudos to Marin for coming up with a way to justify only having one spare prop on a twin engine boat!

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Sorry, I started out with this thought and got so side tracked that I forgot to mention it... maybe a timer hooked up to an electric pump instead of a switch?

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. A foot valve would be best. Whale makes a strainer which fits flat and has a
built-in check valve. This arrangement is known as a foot valve and will
give you the driest bilge owing to the location of the check valve.

Ron Rogers
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. ...and for a completely different approach...
Given that the area is difficult to access, that a very small amount of
water is involved,
and that control of odor is the issue as well as the 'feel-good' that your
bilge is dry....

Simply add a fan which moves air from higher in the engine room (hotter)
across the area in question (cooler),
evaporation will completely fix the problem. If the fan is wired through the
start key,
then the air movement will only be during engine operation and odors will be
eaten by the engine
with the bonus that the marginally cooler air improves combustion
efficiency. Leave in place the
existing system in case high volumes of water are experienced. This has the
benefit of not requiring
operator attention, fail safe, redundant, no risk on existing power needs,
and working to the last drip.

Richard Tomkinson
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Bob -
I had the same problem.
I zip tied an "Ultimate Junior" switch to a piece of pvc and stuck it down in
the lower recesses of the keel, and hooked it up to a water puppy pump with an
intake hose.
Depco has the switch. It's an inch and a half in diameter.

http://www.depcopump.com/catalog107/25.pdf

Works like a charm.

Cheers,
Capt Tom
M/V Carina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I replaced a worn out stripper pump and switch with a Rule automatic about a
year ago. It comes on every 2.5 sec to see if there is any water. It
seemed an unreliable design but was so easy to install, I decided to give
it a try. Works great. Because no float is required and the pump is
small, I was able to get into the lowest part of the bilge.

John
SeaWing
Deale, MD



On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Bob McLeran <> wrote:

> I recently discovered a sump in the very lowest part of Sanderling's
> bilge. The "pit" is approximately 4"w X 6"L X 10" deep (less than a gallon
> of water). If I could figure out a way to move the small volume of water out
> of the pit when it fills, the remainder of the bilge would be dry
> (eliminating odors and cleaning issues). I currently have a hand operated
> diaphragm pump built into the bulkhead at the lower steering station pumping
> the pit, but it is way too inconvenient to keep the pit dry using that
> method.
>
> Because the cross-section of the pit is so small, a standard float switch
> connected to a pump wouldn't move enough water to even fill the exit hose to
> the thru-hull, so I'm trying to devise a switch that would have an upper and
> lower limit - when the water level reaches the top of the pit the switch
> would activate (close), and when the water level is near empty the switch
> would de-activate (open). Obviously, the switch (and pump) needs to work on
> 12 volts.
>
> My limited experience with household sump pumps goes back a few years, but
> one method household units use for switching is a float attached to a rod
> with an upper and lower limiter and a mechanical switch that is thrown by
> the limiters. The key to coming up with such a system seems to be the
> mechanical switch, and that is where I'm currently stuck.
>
> An alternative would be to build some sort of "field effect" device that
> would have upper and lower limits that would trigger a solenoid and thence
> the pump.
>
> I realize I may have to use a check valve in the discharge line because of
> the small volume of water being pumped out at any one time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> FWIW, this would not be the "keep the boat from flooding" sump pump. There
> are two large pumps set up in the conventional manner that would activate
> sequentially in the event of the "pit boss" failure.
>
> --
> <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
> MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
> DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
> Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
> Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas
> _______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. >>How about the Arid Bilge system<<

Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found very
little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea how much
these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?

John Esch,
Carrollton, TX 75006

Fet-Esch,a 48' Chung Hwa Seamaster
Currently "Backward Looping" and lying Anchorage Marina, Baltimore Inner
Harbor
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to
get more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to
the email address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and
the response is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have
more in common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge
pump. Once every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s)
individually and if liquids are present continues running cycles until
an all dry state is reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click
on Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and
$1880.00 with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not
really. These systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the
bilge pickups. No external float switch or control panel is needed
because the system is fully automatic and has twin vacuum switches
inside the main box. Installation on the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation
themselves. With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become
automatic and effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone
with an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://sanderlingcruise2010.blogspot.com/
Pics: http://tinyurl.com/yjx2vky& http://tinyurl.com/yhxjvas


On 9/7/2010 7:58 AM, John Esch wrote:
>>> How about the Arid Bilge system<<
>
> Does Arid have any competitors? I looked at their website and found
> very little info on installation, cost, size requirements. Any idea
> how much these systems cost for a minimal (1 or 2) sump install?
>
> John Esch,
> Carrollton, TX 75006
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Geez! You could accomplish the same thing with a peristaltic pump and a
timer for <$200. Maybe I should start up a new company! I just searched for
those types of pumps and found them on Amazon.com for around $120. All the
common ones will probably be 120v though. I didn't bother to search for 12V.



Keith

If the shoe fits, get another one just like it.
________________
-----Original Message-----


After seeing the link to Arid Bilge in yesterday's posts, I tried to get
more info from their web site but couldn't find anything. Wrote to the email
address listed asking for more specific info and pricing, and the response
is quoted here:
---------
Lets talk about how it works first. All Arid Bilge Systems have more in
common with the simple wet vac than with a conventional bilge pump. Once
every three hours the system samples each of the zone(s) individually and if
liquids are present continues running cycles until an all dry state is
reached. And we mean bone dry.

The spec sheets are on our website at www.aridbilge.com, then click on
Series 2 Specifications on the right column, the third from the top.

The series 2 nano is $1465.00 for the single zone version and $1880.00
with two independent intake zones. Way too much money? Not really. These
systems are delivered complete with intake tubing and the bilge pickups. No
external float switch or control panel is needed because the system is fully
automatic and has twin vacuum switches inside the main box. Installation on
the DeFever will take between 3 and
5 hours. Many of our clients will do this simple installation themselves.
With the installation finished dry odor free bilges become automatic and
effortless.

---------------

At that price I wasn't interested! Sounds like a solution for someone with
an unlimited budget.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. I am enjoying all the Rube Goldberg ideas, but I think you guys are trying to
untie the Gordian Knot. Get out your sword and cut the darned thing like
Alexander the Great did!

Dry the hole out then prep it and fill it. QED. :)

Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB-42 #295)
Southport, FL (near Panama City)
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Rich Gano wrote:

> Maybe you guys need to get rid of the drips. :)
>
>

A crew shortage aboard forces the storage of wet anchor chain. Perhaps Rudy
has a drying station for Jill before the anchor goes below deck but it's not
an option here.

The pit stays as long as drips are possible. It saves emptying the wet vac.
;)

Paul Lindenmeyer
DeFever 41 "Moon Dancer"
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. In my opinion, adding bilge pumps to get rid of a constant source of
water is the wrong approach.

You can install dripless shaft seals to keep out corrosive salt water.

You can seal up all leaks in lockers, bulkheads, hatches, etc.

You can repair any pressure water system leaks.

That should take care of almost all sources of stray water at the source.

That leaves A/C condensate. I installed an aquarium venturi on my A/C
cooling water discharge line. The venturi creates a suction point for
a small **** on the venturi. I ran a hose from this **** to the
A/C drain pan. The venturi sucks the condensate out thru the hose and
overboard, mixing it with the cooling water. It's a one way suction
flow and works like a champ. Cost of venturi was less than $30, found
it on-line. I also installed a shut off valve after the venturi that I
close while underway. I no longer have sources of stray water getting
into the boat. I have a dry bilge with no wet wires or tanks sitting
in water. Not that hard to do really.

Once I stopped the flow of water, I ran the shop vac to get up almost
all the water. I have a spot where I cannot get it all. There I dumped
a small amount of kitty litter to absorb the last of the water and
vacuumed that up a day later.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Jim:

On my boat the three evaporator trays drain directly into small
individual thru-hulls above the water line. The condenser trays don't
drain but the accumulated water just evaporates. It might be easier than
you think.

Frank Burrows 79 43' Viking Piney Narrows Chesapeake Bay

On 9/10/2010 9:40 AM, Jim Gano wrote:
> I wish it were so easy..
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. > And I would still need to spend big bucks for dripless
> shaft hardware....

Morning Jim

This statement caught my eye, as it suggests you are not using the fairly inexpensive alternative to dripless stuffing boxes... gortex packing in a traditional stuffing box. If you are, the rest of this won't suprise you.

I love the simplicity of traditional stuffing boxes, and since we can easily get to ours, the simplicity of maintaining them. We also like the fact that if the stuffing goes out of them, we can repack them with just about anything, even if we have to use one of Jill's more colorful pair of pantyhose.

As far as that accumulative drip goes, the gortex packing (we are using the West Marine brand) has eliminated it. In addition, we seldom have to adjust the tightness of the gland either, less so if not using the boat. I don't think that I've tightened my stuffing box in 3 years and still no leaking.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Here is a link to a turbo venturi that can suck out the condensation
from the pan under the A/C unit.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/3536/Turbo-Venturi-Injectors

Not sure what to say about sweat on a split system.

My PSS shaft seal cost me under $300 for a 1.25" shaft.
_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe. Thanks Rudy....

I bought and installed "dripless" packing a while back... I don't remember the
name of the stuff (and I think I got it at West Marine) but as I recall, I
installed one "ring" of Goretex/Teflon packing then I put in some sticky
(dough-like) stuff, then a final "ring" of Goretex/Teflon packing.. It worked
for a year or so, and then I would be back to adjusting the packing nuts after
every couple of trips...

To get a dry bilge, in the winter (when I do not run the air conditioners) I
can get the dripping to stop by tightnening the packing. I then (manually)
bail and dry (with a rag) ALL water out of the lowest point in the bilge (my
rectangular box), and I am dry for months.. Then summer comes, the boat gets
run more and the air conditioners get used and I am back to square one...with
a wet bilge.

Jim Gano
Seminole 42 GB

--- On Fri, 9/10/10, Rudy and Jill <> wrote:


From: Rudy and Jill <>
Subject: Re: T&T: Need sump pump switch ideas
To: "Jim Gano" <>
Cc: trawlers-and-
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 11:54 AM


> And I would still need to spend big bucks for dripless
> shaft hardware....

Morning Jim

This statement caught my eye, as it suggests you are not using the fairly
inexpensive alternative to dripless stuffing boxes... gortex packing in a
traditional stuffing box. If you are, the rest of this won't suprise you.

I love the simplicity of traditional stuffing boxes, and since we can easily
get to ours, the simplicity of maintaining them. We also like the fact that if
the stuffing goes out of them, we can repack them with just about anything,
even if we have to use one of Jill's more colorful pair of pantyhose.

As far as that accumulative drip goes, the gortex packing (we are using the
West Marine brand) has eliminated it. In addition, we seldom have to adjust
the tightness of the gland either, less so if not using the boat. I don't
think that I've tightened my stuffing box in 3 years and still no leaking.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl



_______________________________________________
___________________________________________________

Posted on the Trawlers-and-Trawlering mailing list. Go to http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering to subscribe.