Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



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) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
) N!
> Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
> It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
> Please define more thoroughly.

I can't say much else. But a funny looking lady came along and said to him
"Hello, sailor" and they both walked away.
D.

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
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This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
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) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
) N!
> Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
> It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
> Please define more thoroughly.

I can't say much else. But a funny looking lady came along and said to him
"Hello, sailor" and they both walked away.
D.

) > If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.

In an emergency, perhaps.
D.
)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
) N!
> Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
> It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
> Please define more thoroughly.

I can't say much else. But a funny looking lady came along and said to him
"Hello, sailor" and they both walked away.
D.

) > If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.

In an emergency, perhaps.
D.
) Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.
>
Just beware if he invites you to play basketball - 'shoot some hoops' could take on a whole new meaning.

Dave

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



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) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
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) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
) N!
> Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
> It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
> Please define more thoroughly.

I can't say much else. But a funny looking lady came along and said to him
"Hello, sailor" and they both walked away.
D.

) > If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.

In an emergency, perhaps.
D.
) Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.
>
Just beware if he invites you to play basketball - 'shoot some hoops' could take on a whole new meaning.

Dave

) Quoting Shane Weier <>:

>
> 'ming posts
>
>
>
> >
> > Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!
> >
>
>
>
> How did you get into a higher quality universe then?
>

Dunno, the email server appears to be blocking D!

Diego, can you try to email me directly.

dave

)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



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C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

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) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!*
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
) N!
> Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
> It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
> Please define more thoroughly.

I can't say much else. But a funny looking lady came along and said to him
"Hello, sailor" and they both walked away.
D.

) > If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.

In an emergency, perhaps.
D.
) Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.
>
Just beware if he invites you to play basketball - 'shoot some hoops' could take on a whole new meaning.

Dave

) Quoting Shane Weier <>:

>
> 'ming posts
>
>
>
> >
> > Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!
> >
>
>
>
> How did you get into a higher quality universe then?
>

Dunno, the email server appears to be blocking D!

Diego, can you try to email me directly.

dave

) Better yet, try to e-mail ME directly and I'll see about resolving the
problem.

Allan


On Tue, 2010-09-07 at 14:12 +0100, dave fleming wrote:
> Quoting Shane Weier <>:
>
> >
> > 'ming posts
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > How did you get into a higher quality universe then?
> >
>
> Dunno, the email server appears to be blocking D!
>
> Diego, can you try to email me directly.
>
> dave
>


)

Dave!
> Excuse the naivety of this question

Not näive at all, in fact a quite polemical subject!
First, check these
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/075-rumpler-with-crew.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-2/screensize/084-german-crew-find-the-bomb-lever.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/14-pilot-in-cockpit-se.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/152-german-officer-with-albatros.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/164-albatros-with-pilot.screensize.jpg

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/archive-photos-album-3/screensize/191-sopwith-dolphin-c3786.screensize.jpg

As you can see, while most of the images show a non-reflective, uneven
surface, one can hardly say that the colour is a uniformly rusty. Some
airplanes on these examples (sure you can check many, many more on the
datafiles) are in verious state of usage. The last, the Sopwith Dolphin,
seems to be fresh out of the factory.
I guess -my theory, that is, the theory is mine- that the amount of rust and
sooting was related to the amount of time certain engine used, and as Andy
pointed out, the exhaust were probably changed after certain quantity of
hours logged. Remember, a clogged, cooked up exhaust pipe is prone to break
in flight (a most unpleasant experience, I daresay, old chap) and affects
perfomance.
On long exhaust pipes like that of the Spads or SE5as, on can see that even
when they became quite hot and could injure any careless passerby, they
photographed as quite dark and shiny, so I suspect that they were mostly
cooler (and probably of a dark metallic sheen) that shorter exhaust systems,
like the stubs on Austro Dailer engines that might have become red hot as
soon as the engine got into regime.
Take your choices, check references -as usual- and be creative! It's not
easy to reproduce a multicolored burnt metal in such a small plastic piece!
HTH
D.

) Dave

Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hooper, Dave
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour


Hi all



Excuse the naivety of this question, or if the same question has been brought up before but I wanted to get to the bottom of this idea that kit manufacturers have that exhausts always have to be a rusty brown. Take my current project for instance - the much talked about at the moment Eduard Oeffag Albie DIII, The instructions - surprise surprise give the exausts as being rust brown. Looking at the photos in last but one issue of Windsock of the replica the exhaust on this aircraft are of a steel colour. I have often read articles and reviews where the writer has quite confidently stated that he/ or she has never seen a rusty exhaust and therefore never paints exhausts in this colour. Who is right and (if these reviewers are correct) where did this perception of a rusty exhaust originate from? Would an aircraft with such a short life span really have sported a rusty exhaust or am I barking completely up the wrong tree and the rusty brown is intended to simulate something other than rust?



Regards



Dave








Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl Quoting Brad & Merville <>:

> Dave
>
> Here's a (relatively) current example from Old Rhinebeck.
>

That's pretty consistent with what you see on WW2 era exhausts as well - a blue/steel colour with hints of brown

dave

) Thank you one and all for your input on this question. It seems like the
general consensus is some rust and tarnishing is acceptable but not to
point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
brown without really understanding the reasons why.

Regards

Dave


Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest.


Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification, of
what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint wheels
black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated finishes,
just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something must
be colored.
D.

) >Painting instructions offer a general guide, a sort of simplification,
of
>what things must be colored. "Paint engine matt black" and "paint
wheels
>black" are other typical guidelines. It's understandable that the
>instructions can't elaborate too much in the nature of complicated
>finishes,
>just give an idea of what colour apart from the bare plastic something
must
>be colored.

D

A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours. It's
then up to me as the modeler to decide whether I want to age the model
and what steps I need to do to achieve aging.

Regards

Dave



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings applied
on the factory?
D.

) D.

>Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
applied
>on the factory?

I see your point

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Dave!
> A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
with
> a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.

D.



Please check that this email is addressed to you. If not, you should delete it immediately as its contents may be confidential and its disclosure, copying or distribution unlawful.
C. & J. Clark International Limited takes steps to prevent the transmission of electronic viruses but responsibility for screening incoming messages and the risk of such transmission lies with the recipient.
C. & J. Clark International Limited Trading as Clarks, Registered in England number 141015.Registered office 40 High Street, Street, Somerset. BA16 0EQ. England.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.MailControl.com

) Dave!
> I see your point

Oops! let's call that a wardrobe malfunction.
D.
) Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:

> D.
>
> >Fair. Then the only decals provided would be those of the markings
> applied
> >on the factory?
>
> I see your point
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
> Behalf Of Diego Fernetti
> Sent: 06 September 2010 15:20
> To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour
>
> Dave!
> > A fair enough point, except that my perception of a steel component
> with
> > a moderate amount of rust would not be brown and I would have expected
> > the instructions to give me an indication of factory fresh colours.
>
> D.
>

) I think they were painted for protection. That gives you a wide rage of opportunities. But one of the most used base colors contains ironoxide as pigment which is cheap and is heat resistent as well. This gives the exhaust an even reddish brown (rusty :)) surface. Here you can add your interpretation of changing colors by using.

Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

Regards
Wolfram


...but not to
> point where the whole exhaust is a deep rust brown as most kit
> manufacturers instructions suggest. I have to admit that in the past I
> have sometimes (but not always) shied away from plastering exhausts
> brown without really understanding the reasons why.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave

--
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) >Looking through pictures there are exemples for black painted and even
>light grey painted exhausts. Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused
>colorchanges around welding seamens, so I think exhausts mostly were
>painted.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be one standard exhaust colour but
I'm not sure if I would agree that they were mostly painted.

Last night after moving my desk in to my new modeling room after 6
months of working on the dining room table I played around alittle with
the OEF Albies exhausts. Using the photos of the replica as reference I
decided to go for a steel colour which was moderately washed in shades
of rusty brown using the lifecolour tenschrom washes which are quite
good for giving subtile weathering tints.

Regards

Dave

P.S. My new glass cabinet should arrive by the end of the week. I'll
soon be able to get all of my stuff out of storage - Hurray




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) > Further I cannot recognise some heatcaused colorchanges around welding
> seamens,
> so I think exhausts mostly were painted.

I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because someone made him
paint a boat.
D.

) > I saw a seaman once, and he was quite exhausted because
> someone made him
> paint a boat.
> D.
>
Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
Please define more thoroughly.
If it was HMS Iron Duke I feel sorry for him.
/Neil
) N!
> Point of order, if it was a seaman it was probably a ship, not a boat.
> It could have been a boat, I can't deny it though.
> Please define more thoroughly.

I can't say much else. But a funny looking lady came along and said to him
"Hello, sailor" and they both walked away.
D.

) > If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.

In an emergency, perhaps.
D.
) Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.
>
Just beware if he invites you to play basketball - 'shoot some hoops' could take on a whole new meaning.

Dave

) Quoting Shane Weier <>:

>
> 'ming posts
>
>
>
> >
> > Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!
> >
>
>
>
> How did you get into a higher quality universe then?
>

Dunno, the email server appears to be blocking D!

Diego, can you try to email me directly.

dave

) Better yet, try to e-mail ME directly and I'll see about resolving the
problem.

Allan


On Tue, 2010-09-07 at 14:12 +0100, dave fleming wrote:
> Quoting Shane Weier <>:
>
> >
> > 'ming posts
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Wierd, I don't get D.s but I get Dave's reply!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > How did you get into a higher quality universe then?
> >
>
> Dunno, the email server appears to be blocking D!
>
> Diego, can you try to email me directly.
>
> dave
>


) Shoot some hoops.....makes me long for the third week of November when I can
start basketball practice with my 7-8th grade girls basketball team!
Mike Muth...who can still "drive the lane" against a 7th grade girl!

-----Original Message-----
From: wwi- [mailto:wwi-] On
Behalf Of dave fleming
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 9:11 AM
To: World War I Modeling Mailing List
Subject: Re: [WWI] A question of exhaust colour

Quoting "Hooper, Dave" <>:
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> If you really feel the need to call me 'Hoops'; I have no objection.
>
Just beware if he invites you to play basketball - 'shoot some hoops' could
take on a whole new meaning.

Dave




)